Type 076 LHD/LHA discussion

AndrewJ said:

India also fits your requirements. India can make LCA fighter jets, and also land on the moon. But ...

In today's world, nothing is for sure.

Click to expand...

You honestly don't think India can make a catapult system if they really wanted to?
India's problem has never been about abilities or even capabilities.
The problem they face are systemic rot, lack of will, terrible policies.
Their issues have never been about smarts or abilities.

kwaigonegin said:

You honestly don't think India can make a catapult system if they really wanted to?
India's problem has never been about abilities or even capabilities.
The problem they face are systemic rot, lack of will, terrible policies.
Their issues have never been about smarts or abilities.

Click to expand...

You need a healthy system of systems to produce complex systems like EMAL. If you think India has a problem of systemic rot, why do you think India can produce EMAL on its own at the same time?

kwaigonegin said:

You honestly don't think India can make a catapult system if they really wanted to?
India's problem has never been about abilities or even capabilities.
The problem they face are systemic rot, lack of will, terrible policies.
Their issues have never been about smarts or abilities.

Click to expand...

They stuck with the LCA/Tejas (JF-17) for 40 years. They stuck with the Saras turboprop (Y-12) for same number of years. Check out their IJT (K-8) which had been around just as long.

So it is definitely not a matter of will power. Projects taking that long in other countries would have been canceled.

I think the "systematic rot" is simply the state of their ability. They just don't have the technological and industrial resources to manufacture these things in any reasonable way.

They cannot make a catapult like the one on the 076 during our lifetime.

GiantPanda said:

They stuck with the LCA/Tejas (JF-17) for 40 years. They stuck with the Saras turboprop (Y-12) for same number of years. Check out their IJT (K-8) which had been around just as long.

So it is definitely not a matter of will power. Projects taking that long in other countries would have been canceled.

I think the "systematic rot" is simply the state of their ability. They just don't have the technological and industrial resources to manufacture these things in any reasonable way.

They cannot make a catapult like the one on the 076 during our lifetime.

Click to expand...

There are plenty of individual Indians with skills/education/etc, and that has never been a problem for them. The systemic rot comes from the way they are organized and incentivized (or not) by their government. It doesn't matter how talented your individuals are if they spend all their energy bickering and infighting and undermining each other. And not because they are individually stupid (far from it), but because that is simply the rational choice within their dysfunctional, rotten, system.

This paper touches on state capacity in the context of railway bureaucracy, examining why China succeeded while India failed. Give it a read.

Scan from Xiandai Jianchuan of 076's notional air wing

Isn't the catapult the same or almost the same length as on the 003? This seems to strongly imply that the 076 intends to launch aircraft that at or close to the MTOW of whatever heaviest aircraft is going to be launching off the 003. Hard to imagine which UAV in the PLAN inventory would be similarly heavy, so.... why not an actual fighter? It shouldn't be some kind of anathema to imagine this possibility, with both USN and JMSDF light carriers/LHAs employing similar strategies.

00CuriousObserver said:

Scan from Xiandai Jianchuan of 076's notional air wing

Click to expand...

Very nice, But something still missing though.

There should be at lest some WZ-9 class drones to help with C3ISR and other things.

HardBall said:

Very nice, But something still missing though.

There should be at lest some WZ-9 class drones to help with C3ISR and other things.

Click to expand...

The WZ-9 will never ever be launched off a carrier or LAH/LHD! ... or did you confuse it with the WZ-10?

Deino said:

The WZ-9 will never ever be launched off a carrier or LAH/LHD! ... or did you confuse it with the WZ-10?

Click to expand...

Ah, you might be right. Madarin military designations always is hard to remember.

Whichever HALE that was developed by CAC that came out in the mid 2010s, with some LO features, with a lot of recon capabilities and some strike capacity. I think there is a more recent version of this design in the early 2020s that's more focused on EW and ISR, that's the version I'm referring to.