Type 022 Missile Boat

tphuang

Lieutenant General
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Interesting, 022 in NSG. Talks about a new missile boat flotilla involved in an exercise. It took 3 years to fully form the flotilla, perform whole system training, do missile launches and joining part of war exercises.

Says this new boat is very modernized, has long range strike and high penetration capability. A lot of training is required. Just the propulsion system alone requires 10 learning topics like computer, micro-electronics, automated control. In order to quickly reach combat capability, the sailors went to the shipyards in advance to help test out the equipments, formed over 60+ operational manual and 30+ operational procedure.
  东方网10月15日消息:硝烟起处,风卷残云。仲秋时节,一场复杂电磁环境下的全系统防御与导弹攻击演练在某海域展开。笔者在现场看到,北海舰队某快艇支队新型导弹艇编队快速出击,发射导弹精准命中目标。该支队仅用3年就完成了新装备艇队组建、试航接装、整体训练、导弹实射、联合演习等一系列重大任务,成功实现了由“从零起步”到成建制成系统形成战斗力的跨越。

  某新型导弹快艇,是新世纪人民海军换代战艇,现代化程度高,攻击距离远,突击威力大,被誉为“海上狙击手”。它集众多高新技术于一身,仅动力系统就涉及计算机、微电子、自动控制等10多门学科。为让新装备尽快形成战斗力,战艇还未驶进军港,官兵就提前来到造船厂,全程参与设备调试,自己动手编写了60 多套操作预案,细化完善了30多种操作规程。一项新纪录写在支队史册上:第一代“种子艇员”们不仅提前4个月完成了试航任务,还向厂方提出改进建议120 余项,被全部采纳。
interesting in this part that it talks about YJ-83 as a new AShM even though it's been in service with PLAN for a few years now. It talks the crews involvement in developing combat strategies for the new missile.
  “海上狙击手”驶向大海,官兵面临更艰险的航程。那年,支队首批两艘新艇刚刚结束基础训练,就接到参加新型导弹末端对抗演练的命令。在不到两个月时间里,官兵战胜艇新、人新、弹新、靶新、演习区域新这5只“拦路虎”,反复训练编队导弹攻击组织指挥程序。演练中,海上风云突变,大浪滔天,两艘艇的官兵不辱使命,发射两发导弹准确命中目标,大大缩短了战斗力生成周期。

  砺剑更待亮剑时。随着新型战艇不断加入战斗序列,支队根据新装备在信息集成、指挥操纵、系统控制、作战效能、攻击手段等方面的变化,将“想定作业”变 “真演实练”,提出“操作手训练打破建制、协同训练打破程序、实弹射击打破序列”训练法。针对新装备列装不同步、受训人员多的实际,采取“滚动训练”新模式,制订了《某新型导弹快艇战斗力考核实施细则》,探索出7种战法训法,在实兵对抗演习和导弹批检等多项重大军事任务中,发射导弹全部准确命中目标。
 

joshuatree

Captain
From the number of 022 being built, it looked like a large part of PLAN is still focusing in coastal and brown water defences rather than deep blue functions. No many how little crew members a 022 might need, huge number of them still tapped into the manpower resources of the PLAN.

And if the PLAN are a full blue water navy like the US and many European nations, they might not need so much of these small assault boats.

(slightly OT abit here). I am wondering if these 022 can be converted into large unmanned vehicles?

I suspect it's a cheap force equalizer. Considering the two major hotspots for PLAN right now would be the East China Sea and South China Sea, both are within range of the 022. Yes, many discussions have been made about this vessel's limited capability but have enough of them floating out there and even US carrier task forces will need to take some precaution. Ditto for any SDF flotillas.
 

Blitzo

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From the number of 022 being built, it looked like a large part of PLAN is still focusing in coastal and brown water defences rather than deep blue functions. No many how little crew members a 022 might need, huge number of them still tapped into the manpower resources of the PLAN.

And if the PLAN are a full blue water navy like the US and many European nations, they might not need so much of these small assault boats.

(slightly OT abit here). I am wondering if these 022 can be converted into large unmanned vehicles?
I think that coastal and brown water operations will be a big part of PLAN operations even if they do acquire a blue navy fleet later this century.
The 022's can be built en masse, and are stealthy and well armed enough to take on SE asian navy's in any dispute while being able to threaten American battlegroups. I think it's a very good investment of man power and finances, and could go as far to replace some older destroyers and frigates which do not have very impressive sea endurance in the coastal defense role.

Being able to operate far from home (i.e.: having a blue water navy) is different to having a far seas defensive policy like the US, where they move their own forces about the world to make sure threats do not come near the mainland. China will have many enemies close to home in the forseeable to long term future, so a large fleet of FACs is the most cost effective solution.
 

no_name

Colonel
Also boats such as type 022s may be able to travel through rivers which are common in china and neighbouring countries.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
From the number of 022 being built, it looked like a large part of PLAN is still focusing in coastal and brown water defences rather than deep blue functions. No many how little crew members a 022 might need, huge number of them still tapped into the manpower resources of the PLAN.

And if the PLAN are a full blue water navy like the US and many European nations, they might not need so much of these small assault boats.

(slightly OT abit here). I am wondering if these 022 can be converted into large unmanned vehicles?

It is my belief that the 022 will form the PLAN's primary long-range offensive force in any potential conflict with the likes of the US and Japan.

Although China has made great strides in developing its blue water navy, its principle surface combatant fleets are still some way behind the USN and JMSDF, and would be unlikely to fair well against them, and especially the USN, in any full scale conflict in the near to medium future.

Thus, sending out the likes of the 054A and 052C would likely to lead to their loss. They may put up a good show, but they have no advantages over their American and Japanese counterparts, and will be hugely disadvantaged by the USN's superiority in naval aviation and SSNs far from home. The PLAN knows this or else they would never have gone with the 022 in such a big way.

The 054A and 052C etc will likely limit their area of operation to the shallow waters near China, where they can benefit from land based aviation and SSK support. Their role will be a mainly defensive one, intended to intercept incoming cruise missiles and fighters before they reach the Chinese mainland, and also providing land based defenses early warning so they can alert units and move assets into position to best intercept the income waves.

The 022 will operate in wolf packs far out to the pacific. They will be all but immune to SSNs, and land based air cover would made any attempt to attack them using air power highly costly for the enemy.

The 022s will rely on off-board sensors to provide targeting info.

Their biggest limiting factor would be the fuel supply, but since the PLAN is building so damn many of they, they could effectively use them like a minefield, whereby a unit will move to a pre-determined holding area, and turn off their engines and just wait for someone to pick up a target for them to engage.

With their engines off, they could stay on station for as long as the provisions hold, and will be undetectable to subs. Any carrier battle group operating under tight emissions control will also be extremely unlikely to detect such formations unless they run them over. In which case, it is very likely that the FACs will also have seen the warships and would have gone active and fired their missiles independently if off-board sensors somehow didn't pick up the incoming ships way before hand.

Such a tactic would force the USN into a difficult position of either sending out search aircraft to actively scan for the FACs (which would be difficult and will have a limited range due to the size and stealth design of the boats). That will give the PLAN a rough estimate of where the carriers be.

If the USN choses not to try and clear the FACs out of the way, they run a very high risk of a mass of AShMs suddenly appearing on their screens very close to their ships, with a very high chance that those missiles will saturate the defenses of whatever ship they are targeted at, and deal it a heavy if not devastating blow.

The difference between FACs and mines is that FACs can be repositioned very quickly, so even if you cleared a pack from the area, you can never be sure another pack hasn't taken its place later, so you need continuous active searches to ensure none are sneaking up on you. That massively narrows the ball park where the PLAN needs to search, and if its ASBM programme is real, then that would go a long way to helping the PLAN resolve the hardest part of locating the carrier.

With the speed of a ballistic missile, they may only need to find a carrier and track it for less than an hour (maybe as short as a fraction of an hour) before an ASBM impacts. For a carrier kill, I think the PLA would be more than happy to re-task satellites to provide continuous real-time tracking of the target.
 

ZTZ99

Banned Idiot
The 022's are coastal, brown water vessels. They will provide coastal defence against enemy naval ships approaching to within a few hundred km at most, which is not much more than the reach of the YJ-83. Expecting them to have the fuel and food provisions to travel the high seas for "long range" defense beyond the coastal areas is not reasonable. Expecting them to brave the high sea states required for blue water deployment for extended periods of time is not reasonable. These FAC's are for what every other FAC is for: coastal antiship defense.
 

ZTZ99

Banned Idiot
With the speed of a ballistic missile, they may only need to find a carrier and track it for less than an hour (maybe as short as a fraction of an hour) before an ASBM impacts. For a carrier kill, I think the PLA would be more than happy to re-task satellites to provide continuous real-time tracking of the target.

How exactly are they going to find and track a carrier? If you're talking visual range tracking (in the 022's case this would be less than 20-25km), they are dead as soon as they are spotted, which would be fairly soon, all that camouflage notwithstanding. And as soon as they squacked the location of the carrier over radio, they're dead. If you're talking radar range, which wouldn't be much more than visual range, they are dead as soon as they turn their radars on. To speak nothing of the battle group's cruiser/destroyer/frigate escort screen which would extend dozens of km from the carrier itself in every direction. How do they get past those to pin down the exact location of the carrier without having an SM-2, ESSM, or Harpoon shoved up their ass?
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
The 022's are coastal, brown water vessels. They will provide coastal defence against enemy naval ships approaching to within a few hundred km at most, which is not much more than the reach of the YJ-83. Expecting them to have the fuel and food provisions to travel the high seas for "long range" defense beyond the coastal areas is not reasonable. Expecting them to brave the high sea states required for blue water deployment for extended periods of time is not reasonable. These FAC's are for what every other FAC is for: coastal antiship defense.

Perhaps you might want to actually read what I have written as my last post already address most of the points you are raising now.

The 022 does not have the endurance for long range patrol missions like a heavy warship, but if they are only heading out to designated staging areas and then switch off their engines and just wait, they can stay on station for weeks if needs be.

And before you go assuming that the 022 has to be short ranged, you may wish to look up the ranges of similar size and displacement civilian ships. The range my surprise you.

Lastly, its called the pacific for a reason, maybe you would want to look it up. IThe catamaran design of the 022 gives it far greater sea keeping qualities than conventional ships of the same size. In addition, people regularly go out to some of the roughest seas in far smaller boats, just look at what fisherman use on a daily basis. It might not be the most comfortable ride, but its hardly an unacceptably high risk.

How exactly are they going to find and track a carrier? If you're talking visual range tracking (in the 022's case this would be less than 20-25km), they are dead as soon as they are spotted, which would be fairly soon, all that camouflage notwithstanding. And as soon as they squacked the location of the carrier over radio, they're dead. If you're talking radar range, which wouldn't be much more than visual range, they are dead as soon as they turn their radars on. To speak nothing of the battle group's cruiser/destroyer/frigate escort screen which would extend dozens of km from the carrier itself in every direction. How do they get past those to pin down the exact location of the carrier without having an SM-2, ESSM, or Harpoon shoved up their ass?

I assume you have the ability to read and comprehend basic english, but you are not giving that assumption a great deal of support with clangers like this.

Perhaps you might have missed the the multiple times I explicitly stated that the 022s would be relying on off-board sensors from other friendly platforms to gain targeting information.

But did it not occur to you how stupid it is to suggest that the 022s cannot be used to engage targets more than 25km away when their principle weapon has a range of several hundred km and they have been explicitly mentioned has having engaged targets at long range in exercises?
 

joshuatree

Captain
......The 022 does not have the endurance for long range patrol missions like a heavy warship, but if they are only heading out to designated staging areas and then switch off their engines and just wait, they can stay on station for weeks if needs be......

Unless we start to see other variants of the 022 or specific support ships to such flotillas, I don't see them venturing further than first island chain. There's enough potential adversaries right there and I think that's the main purpose. They are the low end portion of a hi-lo approach in my opinion.

Even if you had an 022 just stay on station, I would suspect food supplies and human endurance will make this unfeasible.
 

Blitzo

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The 022's are coastal, brown water vessels. They will provide coastal defence against enemy naval ships approaching to within a few hundred km at most, which is not much more than the reach of the YJ-83. Expecting them to have the fuel and food provisions to travel the high seas for "long range" defense beyond the coastal areas is not reasonable. Expecting them to brave the high sea states required for blue water deployment for extended periods of time is not reasonable. These FAC's are for what every other FAC is for: coastal antiship defense.
There's YJ-62 for coastal defence up to about 400km, while I'd expect 022 to engage ships slightly farther out to sea where YJ-62 cannot hit. Green water at max -- they obviously won't be going blue water, like to the Indian Ocean or anything as far as that obviously (which plawolf didn't suggest at all btw), but operating in the Western pacific is a perfectly reasonable statement.

How exactly are they going to find and track a carrier? If you're talking visual range tracking (in the 022's case this would be less than 20-25km), they are dead as soon as they are spotted, which would be fairly soon, all that camouflage notwithstanding. And as soon as they squacked the location of the carrier over radio, they're dead. If you're talking radar range, which wouldn't be much more than visual range, they are dead as soon as they turn their radars on. To speak nothing of the battle group's cruiser/destroyer/frigate escort screen which would extend dozens of km from the carrier itself in every direction. How do they get past those to pin down the exact location of the carrier without having an SM-2, ESSM, or Harpoon shoved up their ass?

In the area denial role (basically wolf packs/carrier hunting in littorals) they'd use their missiles at max range (~180 km for now, but I'd imagine it'll increase as YJ-83 goes through varying variants) with offboard platforms such as KJ-200 AEWC and/or other High New aircraft, probably with naval UAV's in future proiding targeting info. Not to mention imaging/radar satellites (as plawolf's already mentioned).
 
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