Type 022 Missile Boat

Engineer

Major
Otherwise, the trigger for when to send the waveform has to be very fast and only part of the waveform can be canceled, but perhaps enough to fool the receiver.

Machine learning would imply there is a pattern, which does not exist in a pseudo-random signal in a finite time frame. Good pseudo-random signals don't repeat for months or even years, there is no way for a machine to learn that in real time.
 

RedMercury

Junior Member
You will find we agree, but you misread what I wrote.

But to nitpick, if you observe a long string of pseudo-random numbers, there is a possibility of estimating the seed and algorithm. For a cryptographically secure random sequence, this will be harder, and for a random number generator that takes a physical source of entropy, much much harder.
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
We need to put this thread back on course. Everyone please post only something about PLAN Littoral ships the next time.
 

Ambivalent

Junior Member
@Pointblank:
Informative and precise post but there are certainly some gaps in the official story for security reasons and we will have to wait until some Annexes will be declassified.

In my POV the INS Hanit incident is evidently worse since USN at least was timely aware that Saddam's air force was buzzing around over the Gulf with highly sophisticated Mirage F1-EQ5 equipped with two Exocet AM-39. However Zahal just thought cruising around 10-12 km off the Lebanese coast leisurely shooting at some coastal targets of opportunity would be an excellent idea since they had done this routinely for almost 20 years during any ´punishment´ operation against Hizballah. Oops, that turned out this time to be a very bad idea... Israeli intelligence failed miserably before and during the war and the rounding up of more than 50 ´spies´ this year alone by Lebanese security indicates that things are not improving for them either.

@Finn McCool:
Exactly, many books and articles about USN's operations in the Gulf 1987/88 are inconsistent and amateurish. Most interesting would be evaluating some Iranian publications about this ´limited war´ with USN. There are probably some books around about this topic since the Pasdaran own several publishing houses being busy churning out many works every year about the ´imposed war´ with Iraq (o.k. many are full of propaganda but they cannot be much worse than what we have got currently!). Hey we need a friend in Tehran shedding light on this subject! :) We will have to hear definitely both sides of the story to draw any lasting conclusions!

@Ambivalent:
Perhaps the Harpoon capability of the Intruder was still classified back in '88?
Besides that is no fanboy chatter since the ´Harpoon story´ originates actually from ret. Cdr. Arthur Langston who was Deputy Air Wing Commander and Strike Group Leader on USS Enterprise at the time of Praying Mantis. He told his version to several scholars and journalists a couple of years ago; why should he lie? Only for his vanity?

For you to be correct our pre-deployment brief by the weapons officer of one of the ships in that fight would have to have been wrong. I recall vividly this because I found it to be such an unexpected decision in the heat of a fight to decline to use a weapon for reasons of it's high cost. It is one of those details that is so unusual you can't help not to remember it. I can't account for what the Admiral is reported to have said. The Harpoon capability of the A-6 was never classified. I believe some observers saw missiles being use by the USN and made the mistaken assumption these were Harpoons.
 

Ambivalent

Junior Member
Moreover around 40 SSK and SSN (Kilo, Song, Yuan, 091G, 093, soon 095) lurking off the Chinese coast and around Taiwan would add an invisible but nonetheless lethal layer of protection.

(Please do not try to tell me USN would actually conduct ASuW 200 miles off the Chinese coast...!:nono:)

Ok, meditate on this then..........

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I wouldn't be too smug about the security of China's near inshore to hostile submarine operations.
 

Roger604

Senior Member
Where are you getting these numbers from, like "10" or "15" missiles? A single Arleigh Burke, especially the IIA's, will have up to 32 ESSM and maybe 60+ SM-2MR Block III+, which means they will be able to attack OTH targets, assuming an AWACS is alive and kicking. And they never operate alone, especially if entering a war zone. No, a carrier group will require several hundred - maybe upwards of a thousand in the case of the forward-deployed USS George Washington carrier group - incoming enemy missiles to deplete escorts' air defense missiles and score hits on the carrier and escorts. And I mean deplete the escorts' missiles, not overwhelm Aegis.

Yes of course in a Type 022 attack depleting the escort's missiles will be much more difficult than overwhelming the 3 illuminators on each Burke, which will all be working very hard in a saturation attack. I posted what I meant in the other "sink the carrier" thread.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
this is possibly saying that China is exporting a design similar to 022 to PN? Not really sure how accurate this is. Although 500 tons is much larger than 022.

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BEIJING: The Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works has signed a contract with China Shipbuilding and Offshore Company (CSOC) for the construction of a 500-ton Fast Attack Craft for the Pakistan Navy.

The shipyard hopes to deepen its cooperation with the Chinese shipbuilding industry to facilitate Beijing’s international trade and further explore the huge Gulf market, said Managing Director Karachi Shipyard, Vice Admiral Iftikhar Rao.

“We hope to establish a long-term and permanent relationship with China as well as close partnership at various levels,” the China Daily quoted Rao as saying.

The shipyard, which includes commercial and military sections, can provide a wide range of services, such as logistics supply, maintenance and repair. “It will be a win-win situation for Pakistan and China,” he said.

There are 55 Chinese ship engineers who are working and residing at the shipyard, and they receive the best security protection, according to Rao.

“We are currently building a new accommodation for Chinese workers and we are very satisfied with their performance.” The new building is expected to be completed by April next year.
 

pendragon

Junior Member
I wonder
in the past PRC had a vast number of small and fast, short range boats, missille-, gun-, and toropedoboats.
what happened to them?
Stripped of their original weaponry and FCS, and povided with simple manually aimed heavy mg and a small and modern radar system (search not FC), they should offer excellent low-cost coast guard, fishery control and customs boats for many third world nation!
Is PRC in the process of becoming a economic superpower itself forgetting its origin and legacy?
 

montyp165

Senior Member
I wonder
in the past PRC had a vast number of small and fast, short range boats, missille-, gun-, and toropedoboats.
what happened to them?
Stripped of their original weaponry and FCS, and povided with simple manually aimed heavy mg and a small and modern radar system (search not FC), they should offer excellent low-cost coast guard, fishery control and customs boats for many third world nation!
Is PRC in the process of becoming a economic superpower itself forgetting its origin and legacy?

Those boats are all too small for patrol work, you need a corvette of at least 500 tons to be worthwhile, especially in heavy seas.
 
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