Trump 2.0 official thread

iewgnem

Junior Member
Registered Member
Would CN even accept Ta1w4n being used as bargaining chips vs themselves?
This is just Trump being in the bargaining stage of grief, vs some other Americans still in denial or anger.

Bargaining isn't followed by striking a bargain, bargaining is followed by depression.

As China already told Rubio's on his call, the only bargain US can have with with China is US doesn't f* around and China won't make them find out, i.e. stay out of Taiwan and China won't take over US territories.
 

name

Junior Member
Registered Member
Where is that clearly written? Cite it.

They don't use the term transactions, but coercion and payment are basically forms of transactions.

Power is one's ability to affect the behavior of others to get what one wants. There are three basic ways to do this: coercion, payment, and attraction. Hard power is the use of coercion and payment. Soft power is the ability to obtain preferred outcomes through attraction. If a state can set the agenda for others or shape their preferences, it can save a lot on carrots and sticks.
source is Get Smart - Combining Hard and Soft Power by Joseph S Nye Jr (2009)

LOL Your thinking is primitive and dysfunctional. Most of the time, the country with the hard power dominance needs speak no threat and offer no reward. Everyone knows without the nastiness that following this country will keep you on the winning side and turning against it will ruin you.
You just described an implied transaction. Obey and get a reward. Disobey and get pain. Should be common sense....

It's pychological warfare that costs money and takes power, all impossible without hard power backbone.
This overly broad definition of soft power prevents any progress from taking place. More on this later.

Soft power usually originates outside government in places like schools, religious institutions, and charitable groups. It’s also formed through music, sports, media, and major industries like Silicon Valley and Hollywood.
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All these forms of soft power use money, technology, power and according to you, are all hard power. Sending someone a birthday card is hard power to to you because they cut a tree down and turned it into paper.

More excuses for Chinese PR failures. Why was there a lag? It's because the PR department failed at its job. It put out useless boring stupid white worshipping crap presented by ugly feminine nerds instead of talking about things that would impress the foreign audience. It can't even convince its OWN population of the truth that America has problems. That has nothing to do with lag. They just suck.

Why did this "natural" lag suddenly vanish within 3 days when Tiktok refugees invaded XHS and got China piled? Why couldn't CGTN, China Daily, Global Times China-pill anyone? They suck. Obviously.

Keep in mind, most China things foreigners marveled at existed for 10-15 years already.

bunch of personal attacks...
This whole debate relies on the definition of soft power and hard power. You want to redefine hard power as anything that uses ANY power. The scholars in the field speak about inducement / coercion (which I condense as transaction) vs attraction (which I expand to include lies / deception). No one in the field uses your insane definition.

A country’s soft power comes primarily from three sources: its culture (when it is attractive to others), its political values such as democracy and human rights (when it lives up to them), and its policies (when they are seen as legitimate.) How a government behaves at home (for example, protecting a free press and the right to protest), in international institutions (consulting others and multilateralism), and in foreign policy (promoting development and human rights) can attract others by example.
American Soft Power Will Survive Donald Trump | The National Interest
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Culture requires money and technology to produce, policies requires mobilization of massive resources to execute. Even gathering and counting votes requires technology and lots of resources to organize. Casting a vote in this fake democracy is hard power like an ak47 to crazies like you. .

Soft power can take many forms. Franklin Delano Roosevelt transmitted soft power to Europe in 1941 with his famous Four Freedoms Address naming the freedoms every human ought to enjoy: freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom from want, and freedom from fear. Young people behind the Iron Curtain experienced America's soft power when listening to American music and news on Radio Free Europe. Chinese students in Tiananmen Square who held up a model of the Statue of Liberty were responding to it and using its symbolism. "Seduction is always more effective than coercion," says Nye. "And many of our values, such as democracy, human rights, and individual opportunity, are deeply seductive." Any institution that seeks to attract rather than coerce has soft power--including churches.
Joseph Nye, soft-power theorist | UU World Magazine
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I must emphasis, American values are fake. It's an illusion. Where the human rights for First Nations, Blacks, Asians, etc. That's why I said a lot of Western soft power relies heavily on lies / deception. It's not "just" hard power.

Many official instruments of soft power public diplomacy, broadcasting, exchange programs, development assistance, disaster relief, military to military contacts are scattered across the US government
...
how should the US government relate to the generators of soft power in civil society including everything from Hollywood to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.
..
In today's information age, success is the result not merely of whose army wins but also of whose story wins
source is Get Smart - Combining Hard and Soft Power by Joseph S Nye Jr (2009)

No one, and I mean no one, uses your insane overly-broad definition of soft power.

If you want to keep going then stop typing up a wall useless crap and find me several credible sources saying movies, tv shows, music, video games are all hard power because they need money and technology to make.
 

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
MAGAtard copium. They have a false dichotomy for why Trump would pick a slug like Rubio for secretary of state, so they make up stories about he's got a minder.

This is just like when Trump picked John Bolton for national security advisor. At least then Trump would publically call him an idiot and point out how stupid he was at every opportunity.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
@FairAndUnbiased

No. You are using an overly broad definition. If this is true then everything is hard power. If we use this definition then music, movies, tv shows, video games, religion, ideology, and even memes are all hard power because they need technology, money, etc. See my reply to manqiangrexue directly above.


This is not the type of win that you think it is. The XHS situation proves several things. First, China had sufficient hard power to get soft power 10-15 years ago as I have repeatedly stated. Two, white worshippping policy and media is a useless waste of resources. Three, China's soft power department sucks. Why didn't foreigners know earlier how good China was and why didn't Chinese people know how bad usa was earlier? Awful marketing by China's PR system. This is not even a soft power victory. This is more of hard power victory. The actual soft power victory is (was) how usa duped the Chinese into thinking usa was a utopia until foreigners themselves (not Chinese PR goons) credibly exposed usa's problems. USA is NOT a utopia but duped Chinese people into believing it was AND that lead to a large percentage of them doing the West's desired behaviors (brain drained, sexpat success, trust, respect, given easy jobs, buy their over priced products/services, trust them in their supply chains, etc). Four, it doesn't take decades to undo Western propaganda. Tiktok refugees themselves stated they got China pilled in 2-3 days.


This current victory is more of a hard power victory (home ownership, safe, technology, clean, affordable).Yes, it produces soft power, but this victory is rooted in hard power. To date, the west's ability to dupe is still the gold standard of psychological warfare. They are duping people with an illusion. No one was duped into liking China. They like China because of real results, especially compared to the failures of their own nation
I don't think my definition of hard power is too broad at all. Literally paying propagandists is diamond hard power. It is only soft compared to sanctions, jets and tanks.

The propagandists are money motivated, not ideologically motivated. The literal day that the payment stopped, the propagandists stopped. It is a job. If the government wasn't directly paying these keyboard warriors, how many of them actually believe what they type? If they actually believed it, they'd do it for free. Yet they couldn't even do it for free for a few days!! How is this soft power when you have to literally pay people to believe you and the minute the payment stops the pretense is gone?

Pop culture aren't soft power either. Real soft power is having an idea that people will risk or give up their wealth, freedom and even lives for, even irrationally in the face of overwhelming hard power odds, without needing to be paid for it. In fact they'll even donate their own money for it. Stuff like ideology, religion and culture.
 
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manqiangrexue

Brigadier
They don't use the term transactions, but coercion and payment are basically forms of transactions.
They don't use transactions because that's not what's important.
source is Get Smart - Combining Hard and Soft Power by Joseph S Nye Jr (2009)
Nye defines soft power as power through attaction.
1. If he included attraction to hard power, then it is a nonviolent extension of hard power.
2. By his definition, inciting terrorism in Xinjiang would not count as soft power because it is inciting hatred of China, not attraction to the US.
You just described an implied transaction. Obey and get a reward. Disobey and get pain. Should be common sense....
No. Your reading comprehension needs work. You described a transaction. I described a long term working relationship where the leader does not offer reward nor issue threat for any order, but it is understood that the long term following of such orders leads to success and prosperity and the long term disobedience leads to hardship. That is a long term working relationship based on hard power.
This overly broad definition of soft power prevents any progress from taking place. More on this later.
There can be no progress because the concept of soft power is wrong and I will be happy to debate Joseph Nye if he were here. If you call things soft power as a separate entity to hard power, but then concede that it is dependent on conductance by hard power, then no soft power exists as an independent vessel to hard power. Rather, it is perfectly described as the non-violent extension of hard power.
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All these forms of soft power use money, technology, power and according to you, are all hard power.
Every country has these, but only a few countries have what you think is soft power. Why? Because these same platforms are "soft power" when they are backed by hard power, but nothing when they are not backed by hard power. Hence, they are just extensions of hard power.
Sending someone a birthday card is hard power to to you because they cut a tree down and turned it into paper.
If you send Xi a birthday card, he throws it in the trash without reading it. If Putin sends Xi a birthday card, it is saved and reported in the news as a sign of friendship between the Chinese and Russian people. It can be the same thing written inside. This is the difference between pure soft power and an extension of hard power.
More excuses for Chinese PR failures.
These are just excuses for your little boy angry emotions.
Why was there a lag? It's because the PR department failed at its job.
No, because in all of history, there is a lag between when one power surpasses another power and the time when it is recognized. Partially, it is because this is so complicated that even the powers themselves don't know when one has become more powerful than the other. But also, in this case, the more you brag, the more desperate you look. The CCP builds a prosperous life and future for Chinese people; it doesn't have a big mouth ranting about all it does. Keep a low profile while doing much; that is the Chinese way to success. But it doesn't seem to be your way.
It put out useless boring stupid white worshipping crap presented by ugly feminine nerds instead of talking about things that would impress the foreign audience. It can't even convince its OWN population of the truth that America has problems. That has nothing to do with lag. They just suck.
Mmmmmmmm you want to impress the foriegn audience so much? Seems very white-worshipping to me LOL I sense you have a lot of pain and anger in your personal life and wish to blame the government for it. The Chinese are very happy to learn this way that we are better than others; it is your life that just sucks.
Why did this "natural" lag suddenly vanish within 3 days when Tiktok refugees invaded XHS and got China piled?
Why couldn't CGTN, China Daily, Global Times China-pill anyone?
Americans were indoctrinated by their government not to trust anything the CCP says. This is US home turf advantage. But when they see it in personal interactions, they cannot deny it.
They suck. Obviously.
You're an idiot, obviously. Are you even Chinese? You seem so foreign to Chinese culture. You're just complaining all day, why don't the CCP climb the tallest mountain in the world and shout/brag at the top of their lungs how great they are? What even the hell are you talking about?
Keep in mind, most China things foreigners marveled at existed for 10-15 years already.
English too poor; does not make sense.
This whole debate relies on the definition of soft power and hard power. You want to redefine hard power as anything that uses ANY power.
No, I define any power that relies on hard power as extensions of hard power.
The scholars in the field speak about inducement / coercion (which I condense as transaction) vs attraction (which I expand to include lies / deception).
You condensed and expanded? So you are the one making refininitions, eh?
No one in the field uses your insane definition.
My logical definition which you cannot challenge. No one can challenge it. Look at your birthday card example to see why there is no power without hard power.
American Soft Power Will Survive Donald Trump | The National Interest
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What is the purpose of this article?
Culture requires money and technology to produce,
Cavemen had culture. Animals have culture.
policies requires mobilization of massive resources to execute.
Effective policy making and governing is a must for hard power.
Even gathering and counting votes requires technology and lots of resources to organize.
You realize there is a baseline in humanity where below this you can't even operate, right? Your idiotic comparisons like, "Eating and breathing are hard power because they need muscles to do," only show your extreme incompetence. It is when your abilities rise above the baseline that you begin to build hard power above the baseline. In other words, the hard power you have over others isn't your basic ability to live under no stress; it is your ability to do what others cannot.
Voting is hard power like an ak47 to crazies like you. .
Why do you compare to an AK47? Ahhhh because you're so stupid you still think hard power is just military.
Joseph Nye, soft-power theorist | UU World Magazine
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I must emphasis, American values are fake. It's an illusion. Where the human rights for First Nations, Blacks, Asians, etc. That's why I said a lot of Western soft power relies heavily on lies / deception. It's not "just" hard power.
It doesn't rely on lies or deception. It relies on guns and money. These lies aren't clever; anyone can see through them. But they choose not to, because American hard power makes it too dangeorus for most to do so.
source is Get Smart - Combining Hard and Soft Power by Joseph S Nye Jr (2009)

No one, and I mean no one, uses your insane overly-broad definition of soft power.
Seems other people here do. Especially those who agree with me. And also, calling something insane is unfortunately very different from successfully challenging its logic, which you cannot.
If you want to keep going then stop typing up a wall useless crap and find me several credible sources saying movies, tv shows, music, video games are all hard power because they need money and technology to make.
Ability above the baseline. Any country can make these; your ability above your peers is your standing hard power.
 
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