As annoying as the Baltics are I don't blame them for their feelings towards Russia. They were occupied by the Russians and suffered under that occupation, they have a right to feel bitter about it and it's not fair to take that away from them. Can you imagine if people called the Chinese and Koreans "demented" because they feel bitterness towards the Japanese occupation? That being said, they are doing too much and they should stop trying to openly antagonize the Russians.
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- Thread starter siegecrossbow
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Theres almost a culturally hardwired insecurity in Europeans, due to their geography, to always want to enslave Russia, not unlike Japan with mainland Asia. It goes all the way back to ancient history when the term "slav" was created from the word "slave"
You can go further and trace their violent tendencies all the way to nordic and celtic tribes or even the bronze age collapse, in which case barbarism would be hard coded into their DNA and humanity can never really coexist with them
That's pretty ignorant
Did the Russians use Baltics women as sex slaves? Or do horrendous experiments in Baltics people with vivisection? Or kill like millions of people in a city?
Context here is important. When the Japanese did to Chinese and Koreans are on the level of the Holocaust in some cases. Are you saying that Russians performed similar actions in the Baltics? The two cannot be compared.
"My occupation and subjugation is better than that other occupation and subjugation."
Nope! Occupation is occupation and yes, the two can be compared. This game of trying to measure levels of evil is corny. The Russian occupied them and subjugated them and so they have the right to feel bitterness towards the Russians. If you don't want someone to hate you then don't occupy them. It's as simple as that.
There's no one bad way to treat people, even if they didn't use women as sex slaves it doesn't mean there weren't mistreated and had to live under forced occupation. That's like me downplaying Japanese aggression towards Asia because they didn't suffer the magnitude of the horrific genocide like the Herero and Nama did under the Germans or didn't suffer it as long as Africans had to.
solarz
Brigadier
Everyone lives under occupation until they start identifying with the occupiers.
baltis, pols and the russian feud goes back very long. Baltis and poland was once the polish-lithuanian commonwealth, and invaded most of Ukraine, taking over the Kev part of Kev-Rus. later the russian punch back. they go back and forth a few more times before the russians become a clear winner. It is much like the warning state in China.
Europe is actually about 2-3 thousand years behind china in social development. Europe right now is the spring-autumn era of china.
While the "roman" had a large empire, they were never actually unified under 1 ruler. It was a republic, and that allow local ethnics their own cultural development. While the chinese history was cruel and ruthless, but it pave the way towards 1 identity (even ethnic han was divided with in themselves). Qin was aggressive, and set forth 1 standard. Later when Han took over, it established 400 years of near continuous rule and relative stability and developed towards the sense of one ethnic. Took china about few thousand years to get to the current position. Europe is not going to unite anytime soon. Culture friction will continue.
Stalin was a Georgian thug, succeeded by Khrushchev, the leader of the Ukrainian Bolsheviks, and succeeded by Brevnev, who was Ukrainian. And as for the fearsome secret police, many came from the Baltic or the Yiddish Polish-Ukrainian people. It's a narrative fiction to turn the Bolsheviks and Soviets into Russians when it was the Russians who put an end to the Soviet Union.
I'm not interested in weighing levels of forced occupation whether one side committed genocide or not. I said the Baltics have every right to feel bitterness towards Russia. Comparing who did what compared to who is lame. You don't forcefully occupy a country, they drove the Nazis out, good. But they should have left heroes.
I'm not interested in propaganda either, I have my own mind. I saw a bit of the Cold War and unlike many here I've seen the all sorts of propaganda.
If that were the case then would you say the Japanese were justified in occupying parts of China? No reason to be mad at their behavior since everyone "lives under occupation". Most here are Russia friendly because today's Russia is friendly to China, I get that, but it's also okay to say "while the Russians are friends I can understand why such and such are angry at them".
In Africa, outside of a few cases, we didn't occupy each other's lands and weren't interested in it. We fought, took skulls and went home. Occupying someone else's land was bad omen so that concept was strange to us. This is why the continent is very fragmented and we never really unified under nation states until Europeans forced us to.
BTW, of the founding members of the Bolsheviks, the Latvian share in proportion to their total population was much, much, much higher than the Russians. The Latvian Red Riflemen contributed very heavily to the defeat of the White Russian Army and the establishment of the Soviet Russia. So according to your logic, the Russians should hate the Latvians for occupying Russia. Same thing for Lithuania, who occupied huge chunks of the Rus' lands from the late Middle Ages to the early Modern period, and caused the cultural divide between Ukrainians/Belarusians and Russians.