Trade War with China

Status
Not open for further replies.
manqiangrexue

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
s002wjh said:
Look like Trump on ZTE is because he want china to lower tariffs on soy bean

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Click to expand...
If soybean tariffs go, I hope it's not purely for the ZTE exchange; symbolically, the US must drop some tariffs too so it doesn't look like this tactic of creating a problem and then solving it was useful for the US. However practically, it must be noted that since the soybean tariffs, Chinese buyers have already signed new contracts and gotten new suppliers. Chinese planters have already begun to plan domestic soy production increases. There will need to be much extra incentive for China to dump the domestic momentum and their newly signed contracts with non-US suppliers to go back to the US.

Example: several years back, China banned US chicken. Today, those bans have long expired, but US chicken sales to China have never recovered because once put on non-US chicken, Chinese suppliers saw no reason to go back. And although the time is much shorter this time, look at the political environment: what Chinese person would purchase soy from such an obviously adversarial country if there are any other options?
s002wjh said:
ZTE was selling parts with US parts in it to Iran then lie about it that was the issue. you sound like because someone cheat on exam got caught because he got sloppy where the real issues is he shouldn't cheat in the 1st place.
Click to expand...
Nooooo where did you get that idea that this is cheating? This is real life, not your 3rd grade math exam! There's no cheating in a Superpower rivalry; just ask Snowden! This is a big boys' game of everything goes. The only thing that's illegal here is being caught.
 
S

s002wjh

Junior Member
manqiangrexue said:
If soybean tariffs go, I hope it's not purely for the ZTE exchange; symbolically, the US must drop some tariffs too so it doesn't look like this tactic of creating a problem and then solving it was useful for the US. However practically, it must be noted that since the soybean tariffs, Chinese buyers have already signed new contracts and gotten new suppliers. Chinese planters have already begun to plan domestic soy production increases. There will need to be much extra incentive for China to dump the domestic momentum and their newly signed contracts with non-US suppliers to go back to the US.

Example: several years back, China banned US chicken. Today, those bans have long expired, but US chicken sales to China have never recovered because once put on non-US chicken, Chinese suppliers saw no reason to go back. And although the time is much shorter this time, look at the political environment: what Chinese person would purchase soy from such an obviously adversarial country if there are any other options?

Nooooo where did you get that idea that this is cheating? This is real life, not your 3rd grade math exam! There's no cheating in a Superpower rivalry; just ask Snowden! This is a big boys' game of everything goes. The only thing that's illegal here is being caught.
Click to expand...
What I mean is they shouldn't do it in the 1st place. It's like they know there is a landmine and they purposely step on it . the risk outshines the benefits.

As for soybeans stuff it will depend on whether the price is good or not.
 
T

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
s002wjh said:
Right now we don't know what's the deal is . Wait and see
Click to expand...
I know, I was just trying to point out that everything has to be in the basket, from the very beginning of the whole "trade war" thing, not just ZTE, Soy bean. The deal has to be a whole deal, kind of dialing back everything that Trump has put forward. It is a message that "don't do it through threat, nothing will be achieved this way."
 
T

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
s002wjh said:
What I mean is they shouldn't do it in the 1st place. It's like they know there is a landmine and they purposely step on it . the risk outshines the benefits.
Click to expand...
Apologize for getting in between you and manqiangrexue. But I am curious of what do you mean by "ZTE shouldn't do it in the 1st place". Do you mean selling things with US component to Iran?

If you do, I think you missed a big thing. In a war, would you not pick up the enemy's gun to shoot the enemy because doing so somehow violated the enemy's property right, breached enemy's property law? It would be very absurd to abide that rule. Dealing with Iran is not a normal business case that China is obliged to anything other than China's strategic interest, it is like a fight where people do anything and everything. When doing that, everyone is aware of the risk, one can get killed, ZTE is that soldier who was not very careful in hiding his footsteps. There is nothing of "they shouldn't do" from China's perspective.

Just for a comparison, US's weapon sale to Taiwan is breaching of Chinese law. I am sure you would have said "US shouldn't do it", but that did not stop US doing it repeatedly. So why bother to complain about "ZTE doing it in Iran"?
 
manqiangrexue

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
s002wjh said:
What I mean is they shouldn't do it in the 1st place. It's like they know there is a landmine and they purposely step on it . the risk outshines the benefits.
Click to expand...
Yes, they need to detonate the mine with a rock or deactivate it somehow. They shouldn't step on it on purpose nor should they declare the area lost/off limits.

It seems from your last comment that you think they should just obey the US stipulations, which is basically like abandoning the area due to landmines. This means that the landmines worked.

I say they still need to take the area but they need to be tactful circumventing enemy traps; if they better hid their activities and the FBI couldn't get proof, then they have deactivated the mines professionally and completed their mission.

What they actually did was blatantly break US rules without doing much of anything to hide it, which is akin to running into a known minefield with some nonsense belief that the mines wouldn't work or that they weren't really there and ended up suffering explosion injuries...
 
S

s002wjh

Junior Member
taxiya said:
Apologize for getting in between you and manqiangrexue. But I am curious of what do you mean by "ZTE shouldn't do it in the 1st place". Do you mean selling things with US component to Iran?

If you do, I think you missed a big thing. In a war, would you not pick up the enemy's gun to shoot the enemy because doing so somehow violated the enemy's property right, breached enemy's property law? It would be very absurd to abide that rule. Dealing with Iran is not a normal business case that China is obliged to anything other than China's strategic interest, it is like a fight where people do anything and everything. When doing that, everyone is aware of the risk, one can get killed, ZTE is that soldier who was not very careful in hiding his footsteps. There is nothing of "they shouldn't do" from China's perspective.

Just for a comparison, US's weapon sale to Taiwan is breaching of Chinese law. I am sure you would have said "US shouldn't do it", but that did not stop US doing it repeatedly. So why bother to complain about "ZTE doing it in Iran"?
Click to expand...
The issue at least i believe is ZTE try to make $$ not about politics or geo balance while fully aware of US sanctions on IRAN .The issue make worse when ZTE parts sold to Iran contains US made part then try to cover up in lawsuits . It made a risk decision that hurt them more than what ever the profit they gain from Iran
 
S

s002wjh

Junior Member
manqiangrexue said:
Yes, they need to detonate the mine with a rock or deactivate it somehow. They shouldn't step on it on purpose nor should they declare the area lost/off limits.

It seems from your last comment that you think they should just obey the US stipulations, which is basically like abandoning the area due to landmines. This means that the landmines worked.

I say they still need to take the area but they need to be tactful circumventing enemy traps; if they better hid their activities and the FBI couldn't get proof, then they have deactivated the mines professionally and completed their mission.

What they actually did was blatantly break US rules without doing much of anything to hide it, which is akin to running into a known minefield with some nonsense belief that the mines wouldn't work or that they weren't really there and ended up suffering explosion injuries...
Click to expand...
if they do business with Iran that has US made parts then lie about i don't think any country allow that. Especially when US has sanctions on Iran. It's like running a red light purposely it has consequences. Its risk they can avoid in the 1st place .
 
manqiangrexue

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
s002wjh said:
if they do business with Iran that has US made parts then lie about i don't think any country allow that. Especially when US has sanctions on Iran.
Click to expand...
Then they need to lie better, or just protect the evidence properly. F what the US allows; if we went by what they allowed, China would be the biggest perpetual low value sweatshop in the world. You don't think any country would allow it? LOL Most countries don't even have weird garbage rules like that. Most countries understand that when you buy something, you own it; you can use it, sell it, destroy it, lease it as you want.
s002wjh said:
It's like running a red light purposely it has consequences. Its risk they can avoid in the 1st place .
Click to expand...
Don't like the landmine analogy anymore? LOL Yeah, running red lights only has consequences if you get caught in a wreck or the police get you. If neither happened, you just saved some time off your commute. No, I'm not a crazy person who drives like that; it's the analogy you chose and I'm telling you that every bit of advantage is needed in a Superpower rivalry. If breaking the rules without getting caught can get you ahead, do it. China, Russia, USA all know that; do you?
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top