Trade War with China

s002wjh said:

The issue at least i believe is ZTE try to make $$ not about politics or geo balance while fully aware of US sanctions on IRAN .The issue make worse when ZTE parts sold to Iran contains US made part then try to cover up in lawsuits . It made a risk decision that hurt them more than what ever the profit they gain from Iran

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You could be right if it is Huawei. But ZTE is SOE and it carries the task of geostrategic nature from the state.

Another example is CNPC (中石油) investing in Iran. China buys lots of Iranian oil, even rejecting Saudi's offer of cheaper oil, that is strategic decision. CNPC is ZTE in this case. To bypass or minimize effect of US sanction, Kunlun bank was setup to handle the finacial matters between China and Iran. Kunlun bank has been sanctioned by the US, but Kunlun does not care because its sole purpose is serving Iran and other US targetted countries, it has zero business in US "world".

Recently, reuters reported "". Total is the franch company who gained 50.1% control stake in a gas project in Iran in 2017. Now after Trump reimposing sanction on Iran, Total's commitment to the project is crumbling, while CNPC (owning 30%) is prepared to take over that 50.1% from Total. That is the power and purpose of SOE.

manqiangrexue said:

Then they need to lie better, or just protect the evidence properly. F what the US allows; if we went by what they allowed, China would be the biggest perpetual low value sweatshop in the world. You don't think any country would allow it? LOL Most countries don't even have weird garbage rules like that. Most countries understand that when you buy something, you own it; you can use it, sell it, destroy it, lease it as you want.

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So ur solution is LIE or cheat better rather than not taking the risk in the 1st place especially the con outweigh the gain . and u suppous US intelligence is worthless and not eventually found out about it

s002wjh said:

So ur solution is LIE or cheat better rather than not taking the risk in the 1st place especially the con outweigh the gain . and u suppous US intelligence is worthless and not eventually found out about it

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That's not just MY strategy; that's the global strategy between titans. That's why every major country has an elite spy agency. You think sending hostile agents into other countries is following the rules?? You think your competitors follow the rules? Your competitors want YOU to follow the rules while they break the rules and circumvent your checks so they can add those advantages together and in the end, eat you whole. Welcome the the Superpower race.

For the last time, ZTE needed to be much more careful in circumventing US regulations. Right now, it's not even about whether or not the FBI would have eventually found out; if ZTE gave it their all and put up a good fight but were outsmarted by some brilliant FBI tactic, OK. These numskulls sent un-encrypted documents on a non-secure network about how they planned to deal with the FBI and even brought their sales data with Iran with them in a laptop on a US trip. It's this stupidity that triggers me!

taxiya said:

You could be right if it is Huawei. But ZTE is SOE and it carries the task of geostrategic nature from the state.

Another example is CNPC (中石油) investing in Iran. China buys lots of Iranian oil, even rejecting Saudi's offer of cheaper oil, that is strategic decision. CNPC is ZTE in this case. To bypass or minimize effect of US sanction, Kunlun bank was setup to handle the finacial matters between China and Iran. Kunlun bank has been sanctioned by the US, but Kunlun does not care because its sole purpose is serving Iran and other US targetted countries, it has zero business in US "world".

Recently, reuters reported "

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". Total is the franch company who gained 50.1% control stake in a gas project in Iran in 2017. Now after Trump reimposing sanction on Iran, Total's commitment to the project is crumbling, while CNPC (owning 30%) is prepared to take over that 50.1% from Total. That is the power and purpose of SOE.

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We are not talking about oil which inherited are geo strategic resources . now depend what products or services ZTE sell I'm not sure that could consider geo strategic or just making $$ even state companies had to make $$$ some where .

manqiangrexue said:

That's not just MY strategy; that's the global strategy between titans. You think your competitors follow the rules? Your competitors want YOU to follow the rules while they break the rules and circumvent your checks so they can add those advantages together and in the end, eat you whole. Welcome the the Superpower race.

For the last time, ZTE needed to be much more careful in circumventing US regulations. Right now, it's not even about whether or not the FBI would have eventually found out; if ZTE gave it their all and put up a good fight but were outsmarted by some brilliant FBI tactic, OK. These numskulls sent un-encrypted documents on a non-secure network about how they planned to deal with the FBI and even brought their sales data with Iran with them in a laptop on a US trip. It's this stupidity that triggers me!

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U are confused with US vs china geo strategic vs companies strategic .

s002wjh said:

U are confused with US vs china geo strategic vs companies strategic .

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No. I'm not. ZTE is a Chinese state-owned enterprise and it is being banned by the US government. This is not a Chinese private company vs. Qualcomm fight. Qualcomm is pissed. Qualcom wants to sell. ZTE wants to buy. YOU are confusing what ZTE did with a stupid business decision but it isn't that at all. Money earned from Iran is pocket change; it's stupid to risk a US ban for that kind of money. Instead, US laws were circumvents to empower Iran, a US adversary, to draw US assets/resources away from facing China.

manqiangrexue said:

No. I'm not. ZTE is a Chinese state-owned enterprise and it is being banned by the US government. This is not a Chinese private company vs. Qualcomm fight. Qualcomm is pissed. Qualcom wants to sell. ZTE wants to buy. YOU are confusing what ZTE did with a stupid business decision but it isn't that at all. Money earned from Iran is pocket change; it's stupid to risk a US ban for that kind of money. Instead, US laws were circumvents to empower Iran, a US adversary, to draw US assets/resources away from facing China.

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Yes ZTE has state shareholders and it's likely some one in ZTE want to make $$$ and take high risk. I don't buy that CCP ask ZTE purposely created shell companies to sell stuff to Iran for geo strategy purpose . for what get Iranian to have wireless network and smartphones? Is there articles to prove that .

s002wjh said:

Yes ZTE has state shareholders and it's likely some one in ZTE want to make $$$ and take high risk. I don't buy that CCP ask ZTE purposely created shell companies to sell stuff to Iran for geo strategy purpose . for what get Iranian to have wireless network and smartphones? Is there articles to prove that .

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The purpose of US sanctions is to make life miserable for Iranians hoping they would revolt against their leadership. Selling them telecom equipment and cellphones not only makes money but also does something to increase the quality of life and ease of business in Iran, blunting US sanctions to make them miserable. Of course you need more than cellphones and telecom to achieve this but every bit helps. If this is the purpose, then this is a calculated risk but poorly executed. Do I have documents to prove that? LOLOL ZTE is sloppy as shit but they're not THAT sloppy; I can't Google their CCP-ZTE documents. haha

But I'll give this to you though: if it is as you think, that this was done, purely out of greed to make money from Iran, then it was indeed a stupid risk to take.

s002wjh said:

We are not talking about oil which inherited are geo strategic resources . now depend what products or services ZTE sell I'm not sure that could consider geo strategic or just making $$ even state companies had to make $$$ some where .

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National fiber optic communication network is used by the military, banking system, government agencies etc. All of them are strategic importance no less than oil. Remember Snowden's revelation? Give you another hint, three (or four) years ago I heard a colleague from China saying that all telecom trunk routers (from Cisco) in her province were replaced by Chinese made routers without American processors, so you should know that a chip is no less critical as a barrel of crude oil. Rice or wheel seeds are even more critical than oil.

manqiangrexue said:

The purpose of US sanctions is to make life miserable for Iranians hoping they would revolt against their leadership. Selling them telecom equipment and cellphones not only makes money but also does something to increase the quality of life and ease of business in Iran, blunting US sanctions to make them miserable. Of course you need more than cellphones and telecom to achieve this but every bit helps. If this is the purpose, then this is a calculated risk but poorly executed. Do I have documents to prove that? LOLOL ZTE is sloppy as shit but they're not THAT sloppy; I can't Google their CCP-ZTE documents. haha

But I'll give this to you though: if it is as you think, that this was done, purely out of greed to make money from Iran, then it was indeed a stupid risk to take.

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i'm not talking about the purpose of the sanction but did ZTE violate the sanction due to its own greed or its back up by CCP. if its latter do you have prove on it, if not its really just conspiracy theory.
if its not due to CCP order, then its a company decision due to greed. The risk outweight the gain. if thats the case its not US vs China, but a company decision.
However, now it become a China/US trade issue due to US ban ZTE purchasing parts and upcoming deal etc.