Trade War with China

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ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
ougoah

let me ask you this:

would it be convenient for China to take over more foreign territories than just Hambantota, Sri Lanka port
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while swapping them for debts to China?

I see your intention and understand the concern if it is genuine. But in what reality is this unfair? When the bank takes the collateral if you end up broke is that unfair? does it make the bank evil? despite both parties completely understanding how things work and what the deal is. I'm not happy this is happens when agreements and deals end up not working favourably but I don't agree this is Chinese intention. There is no proof it is. And even IF this is somehow the game CPC wants to play and prey upon those who cannot manage the loans, it still does not make them worse than the system of oppression they are said to be "replacing" in the future. That system comes in with guns blazing, murdering innocents, and taking everything over by force. Any resistance is met without mercy. Surely I'd still prefer the civilised Chinese way even if what you are trying to insinuate is true. And even then that's a BIG effing IF. I'm sure those China hateboys still love trumpeting this stuff as if China is the empire and they are a bunch of choirboys.

Disclaimer: when I write "western" in my posts, I am referring solely to the subgroups who have been responsible for some of the discussed crimes against humanity, as well as those who continue to support and propagate a system that still aims to oppress innocents. From illegally entering Syria and conducting military operations against the will of the elected president and many in the UN community, to allowing mass shootings to continue around the USA. These same people are responsible for the growing instability in Asia by escalating tension in Korea and SCS despite having no business in the region while not even calming the situation. It's China who has slowly been easing up their claims from century old disputes. What a convenience it is to bring this century old dispute into a dramatic affair today. Especially one China is dealing with using considerable constraint and maturity. Imagine if the CPC supported Texas or California indepedence from USA or the return of these states to Mexico. I bet the US leadership and power that be will be less than calm in response.
 
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I see your intention and understand the concern if it is genuine. But in what reality is this unfair? When the bank takes the collateral if you end up broke is that unfair? does it make the bank evil? despite both parties completely understanding how things work and what the deal is. I'm not happy this is happens when agreements and deals end up not working favourably but I don't agree this is Chinese intention. There is no proof it is. And even IF this is somehow the game CPC wants to play and prey upon those who cannot manage the loans, it still does not make them worse than the system of oppression they are said to be "replacing" in the future. That system comes in with guns blazing, murdering innocents, and taking everything over by force. Any resistance is met without mercy. Surely I'd still prefer the civilised Chinese way even if what you are trying to insinuate is true. And even then that's a BIG effing IF. I'm sure those China hateboys still love trumpeting this stuff as if China is the empire and they are a bunch of choirboys.

Disclaimer: when I write "western" in my posts, I am referring solely to the subgroups who have been responsible for some of the discussed crimes against humanity, as well as those who continue to support and propagate a system that still aims to oppress innocents. From illegally entering Syria and conducting military operations against the will of the elected president and many in the UN community, to allowing mass shootings to continue around the USA. These same people are responsible for the growing instability in Asia by escalating tension in Korea and SCS despite having no business in the region while not even calming the situation. It's China who has slowly been easing up their claims from century old disputes. What a convenience it is to bring this century old dispute into a dramatic affair today. Especially one China is dealing with using considerable constraint and maturity. Imagine if the CPC supported Texas or California indepedence from USA or the return of these states to Mexico. I bet the US leadership and power that be will be less than calm in response.
LOL oug... my question 15 minutes ago
might've been answered with Yes or No, but thanks anyway
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
I would say most of your post is pretty accurate. America developed, then stopped, people got lazy and lost their work ethic because America has always been #1 in recent memory.

America probably invests more in R&D than ever before, but new technology is not trickling down to the public like it used to. I don't know what's going on, that would require a trip to conspiracy land, and people here dont seem to like that place.

You have strong opinions, but also a seemingly open mind.

If you cut out all the toxic flamebaits, you might find you have a much move civil and fruitful decision rather than the ever escalating mud slinging contest you are triggering and fuelling to no one’s benefit or credit.
 
now I read
Spotlight: Shock waves of Trump China tariffs hit elite U.S. outdoor industries
Xinhua| 2018-04-01 18:51:28
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The far-reaching effects of the Trump administration's threat of a trade war with China have even hit the tony enclave of Aspen in the central U.S. state of Colorado, 3,200 km west of Washington.

"WE ARE NOT HAPPY"

Trump has planned to impose unilateral tariffs on up to 60 billion U.S. dollars worth of a wide range of consumer goods imported from China.

But this Saturday, Aspen, the internationally renowned ski resort town where the median home costs 4.7 million dollars, looks to be hit by the president's move. Local business owners, who are reeling from the worst snow season in 30 years, told Xinhua that "nothing good" will come from the planned tariffs.

"We aren't happy," Aspen business owner Dean Holman told Xinhua, "Our margins are tight enough and now our cost of goods is about to go up."

Hamilton Sports is located across the street from the Silver Queen Gondola on Aspen Mountain and entertains an upscale crowd, who Saturday were browsing Kastle, Head, Blizzard, Volkl and Rossignol skis.

"Trump thinks he's helping create a level playing field, but all he's doing is hurting Americans," shopper Andrea Clemmons told Xinhua.

"One of the reasons we have survived is great returning clientele year after year," Miller said, adding that they are concerned the proposed tariffs will drive customers away.

The whole outdoor recreation industry, which comprises 2 percent (373.7 billion dollars) of the entire 2016 U.S. Gross Domestic Product according to the federal Bureau of Economic Analysis, has smelled the odor.

In anticipation of Trump's decision, the Outdoor Industry Association (OAI) sent a letter in March, also signed by Snowsports Industries America and 40 other trade associations, citing adverse impacts of Trump's move.

In 2017, China accounted for about 41 percent of all apparel, 72 percent of all footwear and 84 percent of all travel goods imported into the United States, the industry said.

"ANOTHER 25 PERCENT?"

"Outdoor products already face one of the highest tariffs out there, and now you are going to add another 25 percent?" the industry complained in a statement, warning Washington's decision could drastically increase the cost of technical outdoor gear, potentially hurting the outdoor recreation economy, whose size is 887 billion dollars according to the OAI.

Currently, the outdoor industry pays steep tariffs applied by the United States, with an average rate of about 17 percent.

"These products are already heavily taxed, and if they are included in the final list of products subject to retaliatory tariffs, this announcement means a typical 200 dollars pair of hiking boots could increase in cost by 80 percent to as much as 360 dollars a pair," OIA's Amy Roberts said.

"I don't think this will hurt these big businesses -- they will just pass the cost onto their customers," said Washington-based policy analyst David Richardson.

Industry retailers disagreed. "This has the potential of being a devastating blow," Alex Boian, the vice president of government affairs for Boulder's Outdoor Industry Association, told U.S. National Public Radio.

The tariff proposal would increase fees by 25 percent paid on goods imported from China. When compounded with wholesaler, distributor and retailer costs, the mark-up can climb as much as 75 percent, said Boian.

As a result, a 100 dollar increase in tariffs on a 400 dollar ski jacket which already has a duty rate of 27.7 percent ends up costing the consumer as much as 300 dollars more after a distributor doubles the price and a shop owner adds their costs, the OIA said.

"It's going to hit the American consumer hard," Boian said.

THINK TWICE

In Aspen, Hamilton shoppers expressed alarm at the possible sticker price hike.

"If these products double in price, I'm thinking twice about buying them," Alex Winnaker told Xinhua.

"(Trump) is threatening good American jobs and making it harder and more expensive for Americans to enjoy healthy and active outdoor lifestyles," said Amy Roberts, executive director of the OIA.

Last week, a consortium of 20 apparel, travel goods, footwear and fashion associations also sent Trump a letter detailing these substantial import tariffs, including 37.5 percent on hiking boots, 27.7 percent on ski jackets and 17.6 percent on backpacks.

"Mr. President, last year you signed into law a sweeping tax cut that will reduce the taxes paid by many Americans and position our country for unparalleled economic growth. We are concerned that many of those gains could be eliminated through the inflationary and job-destroying effects of these new tariffs, undermining your pro-growth agenda that benefits American workers and their families," the letter read.

"He (Trump) is hurting thousands of business owners, ironically, many people who supported him," Aspen fitness instructor Christopher Troy told Xinhua.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
The retaliatory measure to the "Steel and Aluminium" is effective now.
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通知明确,我国自2018年4月2日起对原产于美国的7类128项进口商品中止关税减让义务,在现行适用关税税率基础上加征关税,对水果及制品等120项进口商品加征关税税率为15%,对猪肉及制品等8项进口商品加征关税税率为25%。现行保税、减免税政策不变。

Start from April 2nd, stops tarrif reduction obligation (that is restore to normal tarrif) on 7 catagories 128 items of products from US. On the base of current tarrif, add 15% to 120 items such as fruit. 25% on 8 items including pork. Other tarrif measures reamin.

Let's see the person eating up all those quality products that are now surplus.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
The retaliatory measure to the "Steel and Aluminium" is effective now.
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Start from April 2nd, stops tarrif reduction obligation (that is restore to normal tarrif) on 7 catagories 128 items of products from US. On the base of current tarrif, add 15% to 120 items such as fruit. 25% on 8 items including pork. Other tarrif measures reamin.

Let's see the person eating up all those quality products that are now surplus.
eLUrjnY.jpg
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
The thing is, tarrifs is only one tool, and the crudest and most inefficient one at that.

The economic fact that Trump and most American analysts seem almost willfully ignorant of is the very different market segment of American and Chinese export consumers.

By and large, the Americans who buy cheap Chinese products are middle to low income families who could not afford more expensive brands. And the products they buy from China tend to be daily essentials. So these people are extremely price sensitive.

Chinese consumers who buy American products OTOH, tend to be upper class consumers for whom price is less of an issue, and the products they buy are luxury items that they could easily do without.

For the poor American families,if tarrifs raise prices by 25% to match what American manufacturerrs are charging, they won’t have 25% more money just lying around spare to cover that cost increase.

That means they are going to choose the next cheapest alternative, which is still going to be imports. Only those next cheapest products will still be more expensive than the pre-tarrif Chinese products. So that shortfall is going to come out of other parts of the household budget. So the net effect is an overall fall in their consumption. Which will reduce consumption overall in the US, and only switch cheap imports from China with slightly less cheap imports from someone else.

For Chinese consumers of American products, they have a great deal more headroom to absorb the increase in costs. But the thing is, they don’t have to buy American, and there is absolutely no reason why they would want to absorb the higher costs. They can quite easily and happily buy very close alternatives from Europe or elsewhere. They currently buy American because of the social status those purchases carries.

But if a trade war does kick off between China and America, expect Chinese social attitudes towards American goods to turn very quickly and very dramatically. Just look at what happened to the popularity of Japanese goods after they nationalised the Diaoyu islands as a cautionary tale.

The Chinese government doesn’t need to apply any tarrifs or other retaliatory measures and American exports to China would still nosedive.

It would not surprise me at all if once the trade data for the next quarter comes out, it shows a significant dip in American exports to China across the board as Chinese consumers turn away from American products in response to Trumps tarrif announcement.

Chinese media is going to downplay such trends for now, as they are still trying to prevent the tarrifs and trade war from happening, and want to minimise the loss of face for Trump to back down. Also, getting the public whipped up is a last resort, as there is always the risk that public anger will be hard to rein in, and may end up making a trade war more likely if Trump feels America has already been damaged economically from Chinese citizens boycotting American products.

But if Trump still looks to be pressing ahead with the new tarrifs, China has far more scope to get its consumers to boycott American goods than America does.

But both sides are too proud and powerful to ‘lose’ a trade war. What is far more likely is that both takes a big hit economically, with neither side backing down. And trade just adjusts to the changed realities and adjusts.

It will just be a colossal waste of time and resources. But after the dust settles, American trade deficits will still be as big as ever, only with a different mix of countries that are ‘winning and raping’ America, and China will just sell more stuff to other parts of the world.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
The Chinese government doesn’t need to apply any tarrifs or other retaliatory measures and American exports to China would still nosedive.
Especially true; look what China did to South Korea's exports to China after the THAAD mistake, and without any formal sanctions or tariffs at all.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Brilliant. Now let's hope the Europeans act similarly arrogant and get their eventual serving of economic justice. I have a warm feeling they will implode in decades time anyway.
 
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