The War in the Ukraine

SolarWarden

Junior Member
Registered Member
Yes VKS CAP simply doesn't exist, just like the defenses in the south doesn't exist and all it takes is some Abrams and Bradleys to drive right through... That was a good possibility according to you last year.

I don't know if you're simply severely propagandized or have a more vested interest in promoting the same failed narrative over and over, but this is maybe the 5-7th wunderwaffen/game changer moment now.

I'm tired, boss.

Wake me up when Ukraine shows it can meaningfully deplete Russian forces. Wars are won by logistics not clips of tactical combat combined with bombastic baseless assertations that javelin/himars/ghostofkiev/leopards/bradley/abrams/ and now F-16 will win the war singlehandedly ANY moment™ now.
Exaggeration and sarcasm are all you got? I made a statement that Russian CAP is pretty much non-existent by the lack of any VKS fighters intercepting drones and an airbase with flankers parked couple in hangar getting hit... have you forgotten the SU-57 PARKED and getting hit?

drones over Rostov

Just flying over Russian airspace with no care in the world... so I'll ask again where is the CAP?

So once the final s300/400 gets taken out why is it farfetched to believe Ukraine SU-27's. SU-24's or Mig-29's will be dropping JDAMS without VKS intercepting them?
 

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
Russians having issues keeping flankers airworthy for CAP is what I'm looking at. If the original can't stay airworthy protecting its airspace it makes me speculate about the copies.

Simply illogical reasoning.
1. You say the Flankers are “hangar queens”, that is your own idle speculation to start.
2. Mission readiness is primarily a function of maintenance and airframe life, if you don’t know when most Chinese Flankers were manufactured then you should stay silent.
3. Chinese Flankers have started to change to a domestically designed and manufactured engine. A key part in mission readiness. There are also probably other changes/improvements made.
4. As I noted, 100’s of Flankers per year have been counted Taiwan patrol missions.
5. Simple logic, if China can design something as complex as a stealth fighter, then they would not continue to invest in Flanker based platforms if they were so inferior.

Anyway, back to the main topic. We know there is a shortage of spare parts for the Flankers because India cannot keep theirs airworthy due to Russian dependency. This goes to issues relating to point 2.
 

Stealthflanker

Senior Member
Registered Member
Just flying over Russian airspace with no care in the world... so I'll ask again where is the CAP?

They're in QRE.. This however requires early warning. and unfortunately low flying target can still lost. and thus no intercept.

Like do you really think there always fighter in the air ? No. Like maybe you never actually browse youtube on Japanese SDF intercept of Russian or Chinese bombers. Ideally there should be but since no one really knows where the enemy would attack.. then you can end up wasting resources patrolling the wrong area.

There is this story :
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Where is US CAP tho ?

and this one

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What do you think the differences between the two.
 

Index

Senior Member
Registered Member
Exaggeration and sarcasm are all you got? I made a statement that Russian CAP is pretty much non-existent by the lack of any VKS fighters intercepting drones and an airbase with flankers parked couple in hangar getting hit... have you forgotten the SU-57 PARKED and getting hit?

drones over Rostov

Just flying over Russian airspace with no care in the world... so I'll ask again where is the CAP?

So once the final s300/400 gets taken out why is it farfetched to believe Ukraine SU-27's. SU-24's or Mig-29's will be dropping JDAMS without VKS intercepting them?
Again, "once", "will", "what if" is all you got.

What is the attrition rate of these s300 variants? A dozen total in 3 years of war?
 

Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
Again, "once", "will", "what if" is all you got.

What is the attrition rate of these s300 variants? A dozen total in 3 years of war?
And how many s400/s300 different subsystems can Russia produce in 3 years to replace them that's the biggest difference of systems loss by Ukraine and Russia. Ukraine is begging for SAM systems of different types without logistics and Russia just build them, have the parts and know how to maintain them...
 
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Stealthflanker

Senior Member
Registered Member
Well the "definition" of Systems is kinda skewed too. Like is destroying radar and launcher enough ?.

A "full" S-400 system consist of something like over 30 vehicles. Consist of 1-2 Early warning and battle management radar. That is 91N6 or 64N6 for earlier S-300PM. This battle management radar then control up to afaik 4-6 Engagement radar (92N6 or 30N6) This 4-6 engagement radar control 6-8 launchers.

One example is in Kerch tho. You can see the "full" battery. Including the 50 meter mast Kasta radar.
 

Sinnavuuty

Senior Member
Registered Member
Yes VKS CAP simply doesn't exist, just like the defenses in the south doesn't exist and all it takes is some Abrams and Bradleys to drive right through... That was a good possibility according to you last year.

I don't know if you're simply severely propagandized or have a more vested interest in promoting the same failed narrative over and over, but this is maybe the 5-7th wunderwaffen/game changer moment now.

I'm tired, boss.

Wake me up when Ukraine shows it can meaningfully deplete Russian forces. Wars are won by logistics not clips of tactical combat combined with bombastic baseless assertations that javelin/himars/ghostofkiev/leopards/bradley/abrams/ and now F-16 will win the war singlehandedly ANY moment™ now.
This guy is always talking nonsense on another forum that everyone knows here. He joins a bunch of other trolls on the other forum to erode the military image of mainly Russia and China, while exhausting the American and European systems. And most of the things he says are just nonsense like this hangar queen argument from the Chinese flankers.
 

Sinnavuuty

Senior Member
Registered Member
Again, "once", "will", "what if" is all you got.

What is the attrition rate of these s300 variants? A dozen total in 3 years of war?
The point is that the Ukrainians and their allies are truly causing serious problems for the 31st Air Defense Division of the 4th Air Force Army, there will probably be even more. Both of its anti-aircraft missile regiments (12th and 18th) suffered significant losses. The 3rd Radio-Technical Regiment is in the same situation as the two Crimean Anti-Aircraft Rocket Regiment (Sevastopol/Feodosia).
 

sheogorath

Major
Registered Member
They hit the airfield with drones so where's the Russian CAP?

You can only do so much with saturations attack. The fact that the other 5 Flankers on the ramp were moved out shows they were aware of the target and had an early warning. The ones of the hangar couln't move for whatever reason.

And as pointed out by others, keeping aircraft on the air 24/7 is a waste of resources for diminishing gains.

Unlike the US the Russians and Chinese pretty much keep quiet on the MCR (Mission Capable Rate) of their Flanker fleet but the rumors have been that Flankers are hangar queens and now in time of war it could be the rumor is true.

No ofense, but thats one of the silliests things I've read. It has always been rumor spread by f-16.net types since time inmemorial based on misread reports and bs from Indian media about their Flankers and other similar assumptions taken as gospel by some.

It doesn't make sense for a top 3 air force after two years of war to not have CAP at least the general area where there is war. At least have an AWACS flying so that it can scramble fighters to intercept incoming drones.

The point of a saturation attack is to overwhelm all assets in the target and considering how often the Ukranian try it, that we don't see such things happenings more often and how limited damage usually is points out that they do infact have defences on it.

And there are no signs of Russian air strikes capabilities being degraded despite all the claims about how the Ukranians are destroying dozens of Flankers each week; Ukranian positions are still getting hammered daily by glide bombs while also pretending that whats left of the Ukranian air base network isn't getting hit almost daily to the point we haven't seen many sorties as of late of whats left of the ukranian fleet other than the video of an ancient Yak-52 chasing a drone.

Since we are about rumors, maybe it is true the entire Ukranian Su-24 fleet got wiped out, then.

Anyway, back to the main topic. We know there is a shortage of spare parts for the Flankers because India cannot keep theirs airworthy due to Russian dependency. This goes to issues relating to point 2.
I think India manages to sink the operational rate of evey aircraft they have in the inventory but somehow people don't make assumptions about it for the rest of the worldwide fleet of a type.
 
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