The War in the Ukraine

SlothmanAllen

Junior Member
Registered Member
I don’t think you can say that NATO is fighting Russia directly, by you can say they are fighting them by proxy via Ukraine.

A direct conflict between NATO and Russia in Ukraine would mean hundreds of thousands of troops being deployed from the NATO side along with thousands of fighter aircraft, tanks and vast surface and sub-surface naval forces. Clearly the conflict doesn’t look like that and never will.
 

Santamaria

Junior Member
Registered Member
Are you really telling me that NATO's capacity was affected by having 25% less ammunition stock in the three largest NATO countries except the USA? Is this really serious?

Not ammunition. Artillery systems. So M777, Caesar and that stuff
In fact, this is a completely comfortable situation for NATO. Sending all the rest of the weapons in stock from Europe/USA and letting Ukraine fight, this further increases the difference in power between NATO and Russia. Between yesterday and today, arrived at some port in Europe, about 200 Bradley and 100 M113 to be sent to Ukraine, all the surplus stock material stored is being sent to Ukraine, because that makes sense, after all, none NATO armor was not even touched when Russia loses hundreds for months.
Wrong, it is a totally bad situation from NATO, that is why you see that they are the side that are constantly scalating. A side that is calm about the future prospect does not need to risk escalating.

This is for many reasons.
First one is that NATO power against Russia is not increasing but totally the opposite. They are getting system destroyed that they dont even produce, while Russia is producing each year more of that system.
Second reason, NATO is a empire and need to control the financial flow as welll as natural resources of the world. It desperately need image to avoid things like huithies fucking their supply lines. If this war demonstrate something is impotence from NATO to defend their proxy, and this has repercusions in the world. Russia is not a empire, and its own power is dependent only of its national resources.
Third reason, China. All money NATO is investing in Ukraine is money that NATO should be investing in its own production capabilities. More time of this war simply means China catch with them faster. While NATO loose money and prestige in this conflict China only strengthen their economy.

I am strictly referring to military aid and yes it is possible to distinguish. EU member states had already sent around US$12 billion between the 2022-2024 period to Ukraine, while sending US$88 billion for budgetary and humanitarian aid, then approved sending a total of US$36 billion, which guarantees an EU military expenditure for Ukraine of US$48 billion, far from any estimate of US$300 billion, including US military aid which should already be approaching almost US$150 billion with the most recent approval of US$60 billion, because part of this US$175 billion from the USA, part of it was for financial and also humanitarian aid, but as I already stated, the majority of the aid is military package shipments.
No, it is not possible to distinguish. You can tell that someone says that something is humanitarian, but to believe that such difference exist is laughable.
Russia's military spending before 2022 was below 4%. Depending on the source, it can vary from 3.5% to 3.7% of GDP, this is far below the current 8.7% of GDP, yet, having spent 6% of GDP in 2023 only denotes that this argument that it did not have time to emerge any effect on the ground is unacceptable, when the difference in budgets from 2023 was an increase of 47% to 2024 (8.7%). And another, news came out today about a tax increase in Russia.
They increase the budget in 2023 with noticeable impact in stabilising the battlefield plus creating new military district in north Russia to confront Sweeden and Finland in NATO. The new increase is still to be noticed.
We will judge at the end of the year
This comment here is completely unrealistic.
No, it is absolutely realistic. It is simply facts. Russians are living now better than before 2022, real wages increased. Economy is going well for them with manufacturing increasing as well as GDP increase. And they maintain super low debt to GDP ratio.
Main reason for this is that Russians were basically exporting capital before the war, buying US or European treasuries as well as buying things outside.
This ended with sanction and commercial wars, and the result is that now even with some capital being burned in things like shells production, the amount of capital available for investment in Russian economy now is bigger that it was before.
More capital means more investment, more production, better infrastructures, better life.

On the other hand, the current expenditure of EU and US is unsustainable and that is obvious. And specifically in Europe the economy is shitty and literally any person you talk in different countries will confirm it.
You have german automakers and Tier2 suffering seriously, with ZF planning to cut 25% of ther workforce, chemical industries closing, a PMI showing hard contraction, impossible to compete with chinese products, etc.
Of course European countries have wealth accumulated, but situation is not confortable at all and its getting worse
Impossible to check? Dude, if you're following the war just based on posts in this thread, you're completely out of touch with reality.
In this thread there is no proof of nothing more than dozens of videos that can be propaganda or taking out of context. You want to believe them, ok, but they are far from being any kind of truth.
It is far more logical to trust death estimates by mediazona, that is a definitely pro western source, so you cant say that is russian propanda:
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Its pretty easy to see that current casualties are by far inferior than in other moments of the war, so your statement that Chasov Yar is costing uncountable Russian men is simply non demonstrable.
It seems you who is out of reality
If they don't, why did install it now? What has changed? I'm sure it wasn't due to bad weather.
As you told, it is financed not by the Russian minister but by some volunteer association. The decided to recollect money, wisely or not, and they installed.
Nothing here proofs that is a good investment of those volunteers.
Furthermore, the article you posted did not even prove that it actually has the capability, including the SAR record at Roswell Air Center was not through hangars or any other structure, because the entire area is uncovered.
There are more articles about the same kind of algorithms, I simply copied one that is short.
 

sheogorath

Major
Registered Member
This one is truly great logic. I'm not going to waste my time on this anymore.

I mean, its kind of disingenous to say NATO capabilities haven't been touched when there is a plethora of news pieces pointing out how their productive capacities when it cames to weapon production are basically non-existant compared to what they had in the Cold War and are unable to get any of it back in a reasonable timeframe to actually be able to resupply both themselves and Ukraine in any meaningful numbers.

Then there is the whole other beast of how many of the resources they need to restore that capabilty are now in the hands of Russian allies, which they are also antagonizing as if they have any alternatives if they piss off their main provider.

Compounded on the fact that NATO countries are entering or in a recession, which will impact the available money for these projects, and people won't like it if besides stealing their money through diminished quality of life to send to a money laundering black hole, you are also threatening to draft them to fight a war that could have ended in March 2022.

Good luck with that,
 

Sinnavuuty

Senior Member
Registered Member
I mean, its kind of disingenous to say NATO capabilities haven't been touched when there is a plethora of news pieces pointing out how their productive capacities when it cames to weapon production are basically non-existant compared to what they had in the Cold War and are unable to get any of it back in a reasonable timeframe to actually be able to resupply both themselves and Ukraine in any meaningful numbers.
I could make the same kind of statement regarding the Russians and their production capacity compared to what they had during the Cold War. Or does this only apply to NATO? This inherent situation also plagues the Russians, after all, we are not in times of peace with an economy in war mode, at least not in the West, but this situation fully applies to Russia, because there is a war in progress, losing several materials of military employment every month having to replenish, having to rely on an economy with a scale that faithfully compares during the Cold War, even here, the possibility of replenishing themselves is a totally questionable capacity, even more so with an ongoing war.
Then there is the whole other beast of how many of the resources they need to restore that capabilty are now in the hands of Russian allies, which they are also antagonizing as if they have any alternatives if they piss off their main provider.
This is beyond context.
Compounded on the fact that NATO countries are entering or in a recession, which will impact the available money for these projects, and people won't like it if besides stealing their money through diminished quality of life to send to a money laundering black hole, you are also threatening to draft them to fight a war that could have ended in March 2022.

Good luck with that,
It is certainly a guarantee that the only realistic situation to call for war will not be in NATO first, but in Russia. And that doesn't seem so far away. From now on, the russians can say goodbye to any prospect of economic/social stability that some here want to claim for me.

Good luck with that.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Could not add this in time but it refers to the footage I posted in the previous post showing another Abrams being taken out this time by FPV drone. This time it has reached YouTube and is more accessible.


The 'Carrot' refers to the type of Russian FPV drone that has a sharp mortar shell that gives it a carrot look. It's commonly seen in Russian FPV drone footage.

Correction, the "Carrot" is an RPG-7 attached to the FPV drone.


Russians blew all bridges across the Volchya River except one, as it to allow the Ukrainians to pour into the northern Volchansk strip still under control by the Ukrainians, the 'Citadel'. And then defend the Citadel with their last lives. Ukrainian units were willing and did. While in there, the Citadel was turned into a fire sack or kill box, hitting it with every artillery, TOS, FAB and ODAB they have.


Then the Russians destroyed the final bridge using an X-38ML missile, sealing off any possible route for retreat or resupply.

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"It's A Trap!"
 
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FriedButter

Major
Registered Member
If there is so many weapons and munitions lying around with supposedly untouched military capabilities. Why aren’t they supplying more air defense missiles and systems?

Nato has just 5% of air defences needed to protect eastern flank​

Europe has only a fraction of the air defence capabilities needed to protect its eastern flank, according to Nato’s own internal calculations, laying bare the scale of the continent’s vulnerabilities.

But according to people familiar with confidential defence plans drawn up last year, Nato states are able to provide less than 5 per cent of air defence capacities deemed necessary to protect its members in central and eastern Europe against a full-scale attack.

One senior Nato diplomat said the ability to defend against missiles and air strikes was “a major part of the plan to defend eastern Europe from invasion”, adding: “And right now, we don’t have that.”
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Stealthflanker

Senior Member
Registered Member
Rybar visualizing an approximation how far the ASC 890 will see

Yeah, he just didnt mention how high the aircraft should fly to achieve that coverage. Which unfortunately make the plane visible from the ground.

If there is so many weapons and munitions lying around with supposedly untouched military capabilities. Why aren’t they supplying more air defense missiles and systems?

They just dont have as many as their claim. Also you need to have undeployed systems for training and practices, also maintenance.
 

Santamaria

Junior Member
Registered Member
It is certainly a guarantee that the only realistic situation to call for war will not be in NATO first, but in Russia. And that doesn't seem so far away. From now on, the russians can say goodbye to any prospect of economic/social stability that some here want to claim for me.

Good luck with that.
You continue ignoring all economic data that prove you absolutely wrong and that point the opposite.

Russian economy growing and stable, western economy, in particular European is in a terrible path.

You also ignore that is NATO who is historically calling for more war in all their statements while Russians are pretty calm and slowly achieving all their objectives.

Your denial of the reality is simply laughable
 
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