The War in the Ukraine

Sinnavuuty

Senior Member
Registered Member
You talk like if that country is not fighting a war and wining against “the biggest and most powerful alliance in history”

For sure Russians are not crying in their corner about their performance, with shelters or not.

I really don’t get the obsession that exist with shelters.

People here speaking like if Russians are losing dozens of Su57 and Tu160 per month when they have lost in these attacks to bases basically old su27 and one mig31, and one Tu22M deep inside Russia.
Loses that most likely. would have happen with the shelters.

When you fight a peer adversary evidently you are going to suffer attacks and loses. You defend something and the adversary find another blind spot.

What count Is if you produce more than it’s destroys and if your opponent produces more than it get destroyed.

The numbers clearly favour the Russians so I don’t understand statements like: “this go from bad to worse”
The Russia is no winning “The biggest and most powerful alliance in history”, because that is simply far from being reality, they are not even fighting in a direct way, we know that NATO has grossly underestimated its own arsenal of weapons and ammunition, but it is far from being won in a proxy war that it itself created, in addition, NATO still has a lot to send to Ukraine, they are even approving attacks inside Russian territory, that is, they are increasingly freeing themselves from the ties that forced them to Ukraine to comply by sending more aid and weapons to defend itself.

The shelter is not for protection (although to a certain extent it can also be if considering attacks with low-explosive drones), but to hide the surveillance of satellites that provide ISR to the Ukrainians and even hide the enemy's real damage assessment, build a Even if shelter is not reinforced, it would be a win-win relationship for Russia. I'm not going to repeat the same things I said in the previous comment:
 

Santamaria

Junior Member
Registered Member
The Russia is no winning “The biggest and most powerful alliance in history”, because that is simply far from being reality, they are not even fighting in a direct way, we know that NATO has grossly underestimated its own arsenal of weapons and ammunition, but it is far from being won in a proxy war that it itself created, in addition, NATO still has a lot to send to Ukraine, they are even approving attacks inside Russian territory, that is, they are increasingly freeing themselves from the ties that forced them to Ukraine to comply by sending more aid and weapons to defend itself.

The shelter is not for protection (although to a certain extent it can also be if considering attacks with low-explosive drones), but to hide the surveillance of satellites that provide ISR to the Ukrainians and even hide the enemy's real damage assessment, build a Even if shelter is not reinforced, it would be a win-win relationship for Russia. I'm not going to repeat the same things I said in the previous comment:
NATO has indeed more to send to Ukraine, but the same can be said about Russians. They also have more to send to Ukraine.

And still NATO have send to Ukraine something like 300 billion during 2 years, while Russian only increased their budget to 8.7% for 2024, so this not even fully applied.

About definition of being far from being won we can debate a lot, but the reality is that Ukraine/NATO are losing important fortifications, and the loosing of all land east of the Dniper is not far away.
That is indeed a big strategic defeat for NATO since is the most important strategically and the most rich in natural resources area of Ukraine.
When the Russian will reach the Dnieper there will not be human force capable of making them retreat from such natural frontier, and their overall position will have improved a lot with their own belly protected by the Dnieper while they can easily threaten the remaining Ukraine from Belarus.

You are right that NATO created this proxy war, but the result is that before NATO controlled every part of Ukraine until Mariupol and will have lost basically all the East and praising to save Odessa

Therefore, is not understandable your previous reference to the 8.7% military budget from Russia saying "things goes from bad to worse".

About the shelters, maybe you are right and they provide protection against surveillance, but that is in function of the frequency of imaginary of western satellites.
I tend to think that those shelters are mainly a PR thing throwing against them.
NATO have many bases without those shelters, I have been in some in Germany and Spain where you can see the planes just laying them like in the Russians airfields.

And we have to consider the Bias, if Russia have 70% of their fleet in shelters, but 30% without it you will get pictures of that 30%.

As I told before. Hardened shelters are very expensive, and there are people who says they are unsueful against precission guide missiles. Since a salvo of 2 missiles destoy the gate and then the aircraft.
And non hardened shelters does not protect nothing besides some cheap drone damage
 

Sinnavuuty

Senior Member
Registered Member
NATO has indeed more to send to Ukraine, but the same can be said about Russians. They also have more to send to Ukraine.

And still NATO have send to Ukraine something like 300 billion during 2 years, while Russian only increased their budget to 8.7% for 2024, so this not even fully applied.

About definition of being far from being won we can debate a lot, but the reality is that Ukraine/NATO are losing important fortifications, and the loosing of all land east of the Dniper is not far away.
That is indeed a big strategic defeat for NATO since is the most important strategically and the most rich in natural resources area of Ukraine.
When the Russian will reach the Dnieper there will not be human force capable of making them retreat from such natural frontier, and their overall position will have improved a lot with their own belly protected by the Dnieper while they can easily threaten the remaining Ukraine from Belarus.

You are right that NATO created this proxy war, but the result is that before NATO controlled every part of Ukraine until Mariupol and will have lost basically all the East and praising to save Odessa

Therefore, is not understandable your previous reference to the 8.7% military budget from Russia saying "things goes from bad to worse".

About the shelters, maybe you are right and they provide protection against surveillance, but that is in function of the frequency of imaginary of western satellites.
I tend to think that those shelters are mainly a PR thing throwing against them.
NATO have many bases without those shelters, I have been in some in Germany and Spain where you can see the planes just laying them like in the Russians airfields.

And we have to consider the Bias, if Russia have 70% of their fleet in shelters, but 30% without it you will get pictures of that 30%.

As I told before. Hardened shelters are very expensive, and there are people who says they are unsueful against precission guide missiles. Since a salvo of 2 missiles destoy the gate and then the aircraft.
And non hardened shelters does not protect nothing besides some cheap drone damage
There is a crucial difference: Russia is directly committed to war, NATO is not. To say that this would be an equivalent situation is to ignore reality, since even if NATO starts directly sending its aircraft from its direct services to Ukraine, NATO's real military capacity has not even been touched. So, your statement that Russia is beating NATO is far from understandable reality.

NATO did not send 300 billion in two years. It didn't even reach that amount even considering the financial aid that is the majority of "this" shipment. Financial aid is the biggest assistance for Ukraine, from the US to the EU, the US contributes more to the military part of the assistance package, but has still sent billions of dollars, while the EU has also sent tens of billions of dollars for financial aid, the top contributor of financial assistance, with military assistance falling well below the previous category.

Even if this 300 billion in military aid were true, this is a small part of the entire military organization's GDP.

Even with Ukraine's countless inherent problems on the ground, the Russians are still far from sustaining an advance that would enable an operational gain, the last important city conquered was Adviivka, they have been trying to capture Chasov Yar for some time without even having passed through the canal that cuts through the city, suffering countless losses. The Russians only gained an area of 20 km2 in relation to Ukraine in this period of 1 year, this is still very little compared to the size of the advance that the Russians would have to achieve to reach Dnipro and this with all the superiority in air support with the FAB/KAB bombs destroying and supporting the Russian offensive.

This friction does not favor Russia, which depends on internal stability to keep this war ongoing. It is clearly evident that given all of Russia's efforts to keep the war going and keep the war relatively far from the daily lives of the Russian people is far from being a possibility, Putin already yesterday made declarations of complete mobilization of Russian society, according to Putin , is the only way to "achieve the proposed objectives". Some sources believe that speeches in this style, made with increasing frequency by senior Russian politicians, serve to prepare Russian society for what they see as the inevitable general mobilization for the invasion of Ukraine. With the war dragging on for a third year and the West putting more and more effort into Ukraine's defense, many believe it will have no alternative but to invoke general mobilization to have any chance of ending the war on terms it pleases. .

If Russians spending 8.7% of GDP cannot even have the financial resources to order simple shelters that cost less than US$15,000 each, leaving this burden for volunteers to donate, it means that things are worse than imagined. If you put in PPP(US$5 trillion), the expenses equivalent to US$435 billion, with this size of spending, 3x higher than pre-war Defense spending, it means that either the Russians are spending on the war far beyond what they are claiming or there is widespread corruption that is diverting most of the resources into the pockets of politicians and military personnel, because it is simply unimaginable to even consider that the Russians do not have the financial resources to build simple aircraft shelters to disguise the space surveillance of Kiev's allies .

Regarding shelters and NATO, NATO is not being attacked with drones by its enemies, losing several aircraft. This comparison is simply non-existent. Furthermore, considering Russia's poor strategic strike capability since the beginning of the war, I think NATO would be throwing money away by creating reinforced shelters for its aircraft when the Russian ISR is not even as capable as previously assumed.

And once again you are saying about reinforced shelters, which I made very clear that it is not reinforced shelters that the Russians need, but simple shelters that cost no more than a new car to nullify NATO's space surveillance on Russian airfields and make satellite BDA difficult. And it is from cheap drones that the Russians are being attacked at nearby bases and also at distant bases.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
TOS-2 system in the Volchansk Frontline. The configuration allows the system to be easier and cheaper to be mass produced compared to the TOS-1A, and the rockets have a longer range.

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TOS-2 at work on a Ukrainian fortification near Ugledar.

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Ukrainian sea drones took out two Russian Tuna patrol boats, although this is one destroyed one damaged by AoE. You can see the drones are under immense fire from helicopters and shore based guns. I don't think the cost of the drone is worth over a cheap boat, over on top of eight other drones destroyed.

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Eight ATACMs missiles intercepted and eight Ukrainian drones destroyed at the Black Sea, claims the Russian MoD.

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Ukrainian sea drone destroyed by helicopter.

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Another Abrams hit in the Novoselivka area, this time by FPV drone.

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Robot Sapper MGR-4 by Rostec at work.

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Ukrainian artillery hit by Soviet era M-46 130mm cannon by the 238th Brigade.

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SUV loaded with ammunition and troops, gets hit by a Lancet.

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Another Ukrainian tank gets hit by a Lancet in the rear. Kupyansk direction.

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Sinkovka heats up again as TOS strikes Ukrainian positions.

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T-64BV taken out by Lancet in the Kharkhiv front.

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Czech ammo supplier CSG warns of poor quality ammunition sourced to Ukraine.

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Ukrainian drone spots a Lancet flying doing it's business.

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ODAB-500 hits Ukrainian positions in Urozhayne.

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Ukrainian FPV drone attacks a Russian ATV and misses. Hits a tree instead. Significant interference suggests EW at work.

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Ukrainian Akasya SPG hit by a Lancet. Resulting explosion points to total loss. This in the Kharkhiv front.

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ATGM takes out a Bradley in the Ocheretino front, by the 24th SPN Brigade.

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FAB-1500 arrives at Ukrainian positions in Urozhayne.

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155mm Krab SPG found destroyed.

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M109 Paladin destroyed by Krasnopol.

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This appears to be a hit on a Ukrainian Grad by an FPV drone by the 14th SPN.

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FAB-500 lands at a temporary base of the AFU 126th Brigade in Kherson.

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Humvee tracked to its hanger lair, which is then hit, possibly with a Krasnopol shot. By the Sever-V unit in Chasiv Yar.

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Ukrainian Osa AD system taken out by Lancet.


Volchansk 'citadel' getting hit with FAB and ODAB. I have seen other footage showing Orlan lasing the buildings like you do with a Krasnopol shot, but it's likely X-38ML missiles are also used. X-38ML usage are often confused as FAB hits.


First of its kind. French TRF-1 towed artillery reported destroyed.

 
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Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Could not add this in time but it refers to the footage I posted in the previous post showing another Abrams being taken out this time by FPV drone. This time it has reached YouTube and is more accessible.


The 'Carrot' refers to the type of Russian FPV drone that has a sharp mortar shell that gives it a carrot look. It's commonly seen in Russian FPV drone footage.
 

SolarWarden

Junior Member
Registered Member
There is a crucial difference: Russia is directly committed to war, NATO is not. To say that this would be an equivalent situation is to ignore reality, since even if NATO starts directly sending its aircraft from its direct services to Ukraine, NATO's real military capacity has not even been touched. So, your statement that Russia is beating NATO is far from understandable reality.

NATO did not send 300 billion in two years. It didn't even reach that amount even considering the financial aid that is the majority of "this" shipment. Financial aid is the biggest assistance for Ukraine, from the US to the EU, the US contributes more to the military part of the assistance package, but has still sent billions of dollars, while the EU has also sent tens of billions of dollars for financial aid, the top contributor of financial assistance, with military assistance falling well below the previous category.

Even if this 300 billion in military aid were true, this is a small part of the entire military organization's GDP.

Even with Ukraine's countless inherent problems on the ground, the Russians are still far from sustaining an advance that would enable an operational gain, the last important city conquered was Adviivka, they have been trying to capture Chasov Yar for some time without even having passed through the canal that cuts through the city, suffering countless losses. The Russians only gained an area of 20 km2 in relation to Ukraine in this period of 1 year, this is still very little compared to the size of the advance that the Russians would have to achieve to reach Dnipro and this with all the superiority in air support with the FAB/KAB bombs destroying and supporting the Russian offensive.

This friction does not favor Russia, which depends on internal stability to keep this war ongoing. It is clearly evident that given all of Russia's efforts to keep the war going and keep the war relatively far from the daily lives of the Russian people is far from being a possibility, Putin already yesterday made declarations of complete mobilization of Russian society, according to Putin , is the only way to "achieve the proposed objectives". Some sources believe that speeches in this style, made with increasing frequency by senior Russian politicians, serve to prepare Russian society for what they see as the inevitable general mobilization for the invasion of Ukraine. With the war dragging on for a third year and the West putting more and more effort into Ukraine's defense, many believe it will have no alternative but to invoke general mobilization to have any chance of ending the war on terms it pleases. .

If Russians spending 8.7% of GDP cannot even have the financial resources to order simple shelters that cost less than US$15,000 each, leaving this burden for volunteers to donate, it means that things are worse than imagined. If you put in PPP(US$5 trillion), the expenses equivalent to US$435 billion, with this size of spending, 3x higher than pre-war Defense spending, it means that either the Russians are spending on the war far beyond what they are claiming or there is widespread corruption that is diverting most of the resources into the pockets of politicians and military personnel, because it is simply unimaginable to even consider that the Russians do not have the financial resources to build simple aircraft shelters to disguise the space surveillance of Kiev's allies .

Regarding shelters and NATO, NATO is not being attacked with drones by its enemies, losing several aircraft. This comparison is simply non-existent. Furthermore, considering Russia's poor strategic strike capability since the beginning of the war, I think NATO would be throwing money away by creating reinforced shelters for its aircraft when the Russian ISR is not even as capable as previously assumed.

And once again you are saying about reinforced shelters, which I made very clear that it is not reinforced shelters that the Russians need, but simple shelters that cost no more than a new car to nullify NATO's space surveillance on Russian airfields and make satellite BDA difficult. And it is from cheap drones that the Russians are being attacked at nearby bases and also at distant bases.
Very well said.
 

Santamaria

Junior Member
Registered Member
There is a crucial difference: Russia is directly committed to war, NATO is not. To say that this would be an equivalent situation is to ignore reality, since even if NATO starts directly sending its aircraft from its direct services to Ukraine, NATO's real military capacity has not even been touched. So, your statement that Russia is beating NATO is far from understandable reality.

NATO did not send 300 billion in two years. It didn't even reach that amount even considering the financial aid that is the majority of "this" shipment. Financial aid is the biggest assistance for Ukraine, from the US to the EU, the US contributes more to the military part of the assistance package, but has still sent billions of dollars, while the EU has also sent tens of billions of dollars for financial aid, the top contributor of financial assistance, with military assistance falling well below the previous category.

Even if this 300 billion in military aid were true, this is a small part of the entire military organization's GDP.

Even with Ukraine's countless inherent problems on the ground, the Russians are still far from sustaining an advance that would enable an operational gain, the last important city conquered was Adviivka, they have been trying to capture Chasov Yar for some time without even having passed through the canal that cuts through the city, suffering countless losses. The Russians only gained an area of 20 km2 in relation to Ukraine in this period of 1 year, this is still very little compared to the size of the advance that the Russians would have to achieve to reach Dnipro and this with all the superiority in air support with the FAB/KAB bombs destroying and supporting the Russian offensive.

This friction does not favor Russia, which depends on internal stability to keep this war ongoing. It is clearly evident that given all of Russia's efforts to keep the war going and keep the war relatively far from the daily lives of the Russian people is far from being a possibility, Putin already yesterday made declarations of complete mobilization of Russian society, according to Putin , is the only way to "achieve the proposed objectives". Some sources believe that speeches in this style, made with increasing frequency by senior Russian politicians, serve to prepare Russian society for what they see as the inevitable general mobilization for the invasion of Ukraine. With the war dragging on for a third year and the West putting more and more effort into Ukraine's defense, many believe it will have no alternative but to invoke general mobilization to have any chance of ending the war on terms it pleases. .

If Russians spending 8.7% of GDP cannot even have the financial resources to order simple shelters that cost less than US$15,000 each, leaving this burden for volunteers to donate, it means that things are worse than imagined. If you put in PPP(US$5 trillion), the expenses equivalent to US$435 billion, with this size of spending, 3x higher than pre-war Defense spending, it means that either the Russians are spending on the war far beyond what they are claiming or there is widespread corruption that is diverting most of the resources into the pockets of politicians and military personnel, because it is simply unimaginable to even consider that the Russians do not have the financial resources to build simple aircraft shelters to disguise the space surveillance of Kiev's allies .

Regarding shelters and NATO, NATO is not being attacked with drones by its enemies, losing several aircraft. This comparison is simply non-existent. Furthermore, considering Russia's poor strategic strike capability since the beginning of the war, I think NATO would be throwing money away by creating reinforced shelters for its aircraft when the Russian ISR is not even as capable as previously assumed.

And once again you are saying about reinforced shelters, which I made very clear that it is not reinforced shelters that the Russians need, but simple shelters that cost no more than a new car to nullify NATO's space surveillance on Russian airfields and make satellite BDA difficult. And it is from cheap drones that the Russians are being attacked at nearby bases and also at distant bases.
How is NATO real capability have not even been touched when 25% of artillery of 3 of the biggest NATO countries excluding the US (Germany, UK and France) have been destroyed?

About the numbers in military aid. US have provided like 175 billion, plus other 90 billion from the EU as organization, plus 44 billion as a sum of different members.
Additionally you have 15 billion credit from the FMI.
Even without counting the FMI is above 300k, the distinction between what is "civil and military" help is untraceable since the civil help is used later to buy more shells,fuel, etc.

So, Ukraine+NATO are losing the war while basically expending more than Russia.

Other thing, the GDP of NATO matters zero since most of it does not result in any kind of military capability. Just as a quick example 20% of US GDP is due to privatized health insurance. And other big chunk is FIRE sector.
Do you think finance bankers, brokers and doctors enormous salaries that contribute a lot to the GDP help to the war effort?
Same with the UK and other Europeans states.
And this even without entering in the purchasing parity.

Again you repeat the 8.7% that has just been approved a couple of months ago for this year and therefore have not have time to have any effect in the battlefield.
Previous number was 6% in 2023 and 4% in 2022. Russians clearly recognize that that 4% was insufficient and increased.

Also that 8.7% is far more sustainable than the spend of the Western countries since Russians are actually living better now than before the war. With higher real salaries (so real increase of salary when you discount inflation), industrial PMI expanding, and a superlow debt to GDP ratio

Compare this with a EU where literally everyone I know is angry by the reduction of salaries due to inflation, where the debt is enormous and the PMI of the full eurozone is contracting.
Or with US and their absurdly unsustainable deficit and whose debt is each time more financed by its own Federal Reserve and less by countries like China , Arabia saudi or Russia buying US treasury with their surpluses.

And one more point, NATO not being into conflict grant them some advantages that would not have in a real conflict like using airspace freely for spectral analysis, using satellites that would be destroyed in real conflict, etc etc.

About the uncountable losses trying to capture Chasov Yar, it is simply impossible to verify if there were loses there, but what we can monitore is the weekly deaths verified by Mediazona and they are some of the lowest in the conflict.
Reality is that Russians are taken fortress after fortress. Places that have been fortified for nearly a decade, and when you see the map there is no much more of those places before empty land until the Dniper.
There are lot of analysis about the Ukranian lines of defence in central Donbass, and currently they are almost in the last one. When they will loose Kramatorsk is basically free ride until the Dniper and the northern area like Kharkov became very difficult to sustain for Ukraine.

About shelters, again you presupone that Russians dont build shelters due to corruption or to lack of money, when the reason is simply that they dont provide the advantage you pretend.
Even the question of surveillance is not true, I was researching and if you really want to hide things from surveillance you cant use light shelters:
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Basically any SAR western satellite like Sentinel 2 can apply (and for sure is applying) similar algorithims and see through the light shelters
 

Sinnavuuty

Senior Member
Registered Member
How is NATO real capability have not even been touched when 25% of artillery of 3 of the biggest NATO countries excluding the US (Germany, UK and France) have been destroyed?

About the numbers in military aid. US have provided like 175 billion, plus other 90 billion from the EU as organization, plus 44 billion as a sum of different members.
Additionally you have 15 billion credit from the FMI.
Even without counting the FMI is above 300k, the distinction between what is "civil and military" help is untraceable since the civil help is used later to buy more shells,fuel, etc.

So, Ukraine+NATO are losing the war while basically expending more than Russia.

Other thing, the GDP of NATO matters zero since most of it does not result in any kind of military capability. Just as a quick example 20% of US GDP is due to privatized health insurance. And other big chunk is FIRE sector.
Do you think finance bankers, brokers and doctors enormous salaries that contribute a lot to the GDP help to the war effort?
Same with the UK and other Europeans states.
And this even without entering in the purchasing parity.
Are you really telling me that NATO's capacity was affected by having 25% less ammunition stock in the three largest NATO countries except the USA? Is this really serious?

On top of that, I think these numbers are much higher, considering how much has already been sent and even so, NATO's real military capacity has not even been touched, ammunition is completely disposable, easy to produce and cheaper than spending on the platforms that launch it into the which Russia is losing daily on the ground. You can even say that the stock of weapons, from armored vehicles and tanks were also affected and certainly reduced their level since the beginning of the war, as we have seen some empty NATO depots, especially those in Italy, but it is not possible to compare a NATO that has not lost a single armored vehicle from its active force due to a war of attrition, this is the real dimension between being destroyed or not.

In fact, this is a completely comfortable situation for NATO. Sending all the rest of the weapons in stock from Europe/USA and letting Ukraine fight, this further increases the difference in power between NATO and Russia. Between yesterday and today, arrived at some port in Europe, about 200 Bradley and 100 M113 to be sent to Ukraine, all the surplus stock material stored is being sent to Ukraine, because that makes sense, after all, none NATO armor was not even touched when Russia loses hundreds for months.

I am strictly referring to military aid and yes it is possible to distinguish. EU member states had already sent around US$12 billion between the 2022-2024 period to Ukraine, while sending US$88 billion for budgetary and humanitarian aid, then approved sending a total of US$36 billion, which guarantees an EU military expenditure for Ukraine of US$48 billion, far from any estimate of US$300 billion, including US military aid which should already be approaching almost US$150 billion with the most recent approval of US$60 billion, because part of this US$175 billion from the USA, part of it was for financial and also humanitarian aid, but as I already stated, the majority of the aid is military package shipments.

Russia's military spending before 2022 was below 4%. Depending on the source, it can vary from 3.5% to 3.7% of GDP, this is far below the current 8.7% of GDP, yet, having spent 6% of GDP in 2023 only denotes that this argument that it did not have time to emerge any effect on the ground is unacceptable, when the difference in budgets from 2023 was an increase of 47% to 2024 (8.7%). And another, news came out today about a tax increase in Russia.
Also that 8.7% is far more sustainable than the spend of the Western countries since Russians are actually living better now than before the war. With higher real salaries (so real increase of salary when you discount inflation), industrial PMI expanding, and a superlow debt to GDP ratio
This comment here is completely unrealistic.
About the uncountable losses trying to capture Chasov Yar, it is simply impossible to verify if there were loses there, but what we can monitore is the weekly deaths verified by Mediazona and they are some of the lowest in the conflict.
Reality is that Russians are taken fortress after fortress. Places that have been fortified for nearly a decade, and when you see the map there is no much more of those places before empty land until the Dniper.
There are lot of analysis about the Ukranian lines of defence in central Donbass, and currently they are almost in the last one. When they will loose Kramatorsk is basically free ride until the Dniper and the northern area like Kharkov became very difficult to sustain for Ukraine.
Impossible to check? Dude, if you're following the war just based on posts in this thread, you're completely out of touch with reality.
About shelters, again you presupone that Russians dont build shelters due to corruption or to lack of money, when the reason is simply that they dont provide the advantage you pretend.
Even the question of surveillance is not true, I was researching and if you really want to hide things from surveillance you cant use light shelters:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Basically any SAR western satellite like Sentinel 2 can apply (and for sure is applying) similar algorithims and see through the light shelters
If they don't, why did install it now? What has changed? I'm sure it wasn't due to bad weather.

Furthermore, the article you posted did not even prove that it actually has the capability, including the SAR record at Roswell Air Center was not through hangars or any other structure, because the entire area is uncovered.
 
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TK3600

Major
Registered Member
There is a crucial difference: Russia is directly committed to war, NATO is not. To say that this would be an equivalent situation is to ignore reality, since even if NATO starts directly sending its aircraft from its direct services to Ukraine, NATO's real military capacity has not even been touched. So, your statement that Russia is beating NATO is far from understandable reality.
Great logic. NATO never lost because they never fought. They just lost a lot of money and a vassal. If a homeless person took your house, would you say you never lost because you never fought?
 
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