The War in the Ukraine

Stealthflanker

Senior Member
Registered Member
I wonder how Ukraine will operate this AEW. Given that Russians have means to engage such aircraft from considerable distance.
There is 40N6.

Also unlike fighter jets, this aircraft will have to fly high by default, with typical ceiling of about 9100 m. There will be no horizon limitation. Signature wise, an AEW may have about 1.2 times of the RCS of the baseline aircraft. But then it's based on my estimate on "A-320 AEW".

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Santamaria

Junior Member
Registered Member
I wonder how Ukraine will operate this AEW. Given that Russians have means to engage such aircraft from considerable distance.
There is 40N6.

Also unlike fighter jets, this aircraft will have to fly high by default, with typical ceiling of about 9100 m. There will be no horizon limitation. Signature wise, an AEW may have about 1.2 times of the RCS of the baseline aircraft. But then it's based on my estimate on "A-320 AEW".

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The most reasonable is to keep it flying in NATO airspace, maybe Poland or Rumania, although it would not add a lot to the currently flying own NATO AEW.

If it flies in Ukraine it should be very easy to get destroyed, specially since Russians have access to Belarussian airspace
 

Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
The most reasonable is to keep it flying in NATO airspace, maybe Poland or Rumania, although it would not add a lot to the currently flying own NATO AEW.

If it flies in Ukraine it should be very easy to get destroyed, specially since Russians have access to Belarussian airspace
How to difference it from NATO aircrafts in that case over Poland and Romania ? It would open a crab box, another one we can say.
 

Sinnavuuty

Senior Member
Registered Member
It doesn't even have to be concrete hangars, just make unreinforced hangars that serve as heat protection, but in the case of Russia it would serve as aerospace anti-surveillance measures.
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This would serve as a deception measure against allied space surveillance.
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From above it would look like this. Ukraine's allies would have no idea how many planes were at the base or in which hangar.
How much do you think a structure like this costs?
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These are garage hangars. This hangar was designed to protect aircraft from the sun and rain and not from military attacks.
Furthermore, it allows greater comfort for the crew and ground staff during pre- and post-flight procedures. The aircraft were parked in the same location, but exposed to the elements, as were the personnel involved in the flight activity. Imagine having to solve a last-minute breakdown and the rain pouring in. Or changing a simple tire under the scorching sun. Aircraft without shelter from this type of hangar have even killed pilots. One of the causes of several accidents involving German F-104s was precisely the exposure of these planes to the elements.

Not to mention that it facilitates nighttime operations through artificial lighting. They should cost no more than US$5,000 each. You can add retaining walls to pieces for no more than $8,000 each. Russia could use to neutralize space reconnaissance through satellite images with which Ukraine massively supplies itself from the hundreds of them available.

In wars, modular hangars are used:
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Again, how much do you think a structure like this costs?

Both models of hangars basically serve to protect planes against sun and rain. They are not expensive (in fact they are very cheap) and can be redone easily, or you can simply put the planes out of them as they were until the end of the 80s - which seems to be the current Russian standard.

In fact, today not even dispersion is an absolute guarantee of survival. But even so, survival increases with the use of camouflage, which would be the essential point of using these types of hangars.

With the widespread use of radars with advanced air-to-surface function (synthetic aperture and moving target indicator), in addition to increased processing capacity, which allows automatic target identification, combined with the widespread use of target designation “cocoons” With multispectral capability, scattering is no longer as effective as it was in the past. Even the use of camouflaged coverings is no longer a guarantee of concealment. It is necessary to use sophisticated decoys (false targets) and coverings capable of neutralizing radiation in the IR and radar spectrum. The Swedes use bases embedded in mountains and dispersion on highways (they are useful there), all very well defended by anti-aircraft. The difference is that Ukraine doesn't even have the capacity to overcome any of these obstacles, all they can do are drone launches.

Both types of hangars are acceptable if they were on dispersion bases, even so they should have a minimum of anti-aircraft defense. The most important thing is deception against space surveillance.

Now, a very different resource are hangars for strategic bombers. These should receive at least a basic reinforcement, otherwise they would become easy targets for everything available, from cannons, rockets, fragmentation bombs, Napalm, general purpose bombs with proximity fuzes, drones, FAE, etc. Also, in addition to better hangars, there must be a minimum anti-aircraft defense, with radar surveillance, so that they can deny the enemy at least the use of weapons as basic as these drones.

These last hangars cost money but the first hangar models above do not, in fact, they are very cheap. If VKS doesn't have money, it would be better to close its doors. Just to give you an idea, with a strong wind, the first improvised/modular hangars, with those thin and weak pillars, a strong wind easily knocks them down or completely destroys them. What is interesting for the Russians is the way in which the geolocated position of the aircraft in the bases is hidden, preventing the recognition of how many aircraft are on the apron as well as preventing the assessment of damage after the attacks. It's a win-win solution and would cost almost nothing for a force that costs billions of dollars to operate.

Now, the best type of hangar is the underground one, with reasonable ballistic protection, it will always be superior to any surface hangar and makes it difficult to see, it is immune to secondary explosions/shrapnel and close fires (the enemy needs to hit the hangar squarely with a large explosive power), would soon need to be attacked with more modern weapons and get closer, giving greater chances of reaction.

I'm not in the construction business, an underground hangar with fire protection, air-conditioned, with suction pump against flooding and 1.5 meter thick reinforced concrete walls + steel and + access ramp of about 15 meters, I don't think so it would be over $800,000, but I hope someone with more information and experience than me will argue this point.
The Russian MoD finally took a Shame in The face and did what should have been done months ago:
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Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
TOS-2 supporting the offensive in the Kharkhiv direction.

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The 36th Marine Brigade of the AFU from Krynki and the 82nd Brigade of the AFU from Zaporozhye now has companies in Volchansk, adding to the fierce fighting there. The situation in Volchansk is eerily similar to Krynki. The Ukrainians are stubbornly defending a thin strip of land across the river while being relentlessly pummeled by Russian forces. It is as if leaving this strip of land might have been deliberate by the Russians.

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Russian assault into the center of Staromayorsky now has put the entire settlement at risk for falling into the Russians. Staromayorsky collapse will also quickly lead to Umanske collapsing.

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Krasnopols destroyed an entire Ukrainian supply convoy heading to resupply AFU forces in the Kupyansk district. This at the Oskol River.

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Soldiers from the Amur Battalion of the Volga Brigade assist residents of Ocheretino to evacuate. Despite being captured by the Russians, Ocheretino still suffers bombardment from Ukrainian forces.

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The 238th Artillery Brigade supporting the offensive towards the village of Konstantinovka (south) with BM-21 Grad fire on Ukrainian positions.

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Successful Russian armored assault inside Krasnogorovka. Five vehicles got through to disembark storm troopers.

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More Lancet attacks picking off Ukrainian vehicles and artillery pieces, here a D-20 howitzer. This in the Kharkhiv region.

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Telegraph article: Ukraine knows that it is finished.

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UMPK arrives at Ukrainian positions in Velyka Novoselka.

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A knocked out Bradley was safely evacuated. From the Ukrainian point of view.

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A monument and life sized statue of Prigozhin is erected in St. Petersburg.

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TOS-1A working on Ukrainian positions in the Seversk direction.

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Russian soldier poses with knocked out Abrams in the Avdeyevka sector. This tank was knocked out back in May 2. Tank belonged to the 47th Mechanized Brigade of the AFU.

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More glide bombs arriving in Volchansk.

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TOS arrivals in Chasiv Yar.

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2S22 Bogdan hit by a Lancet. Failed to knock out completely but it appears the SPG might be severely damaged from the shrapnel.

 

Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
2S22 Bogdan hit by a Lancet. Failed to knock out completely but it appears the SPG might be severely damaged from the shrapnel.

We see better placed dragon teeths on that vid. That 2S22 will need some repairs for sure, don't know if all could be made in the field. Being an Ukrainian design, it will probably be way easier to repair than given exotic systems.
 

sheogorath

Major
Registered Member
That ASC890 will be manned by Swedish volunteer ??? No way they can train crews and technicians for those in a meaningfull time frame.

How to difference it from NATO aircrafts in that case over Poland and Romania ? It would open a crab box, another one we can say.

ASC890 aren't common in NATO. Poland bought two but we'll see if they'll risk flying one of theirs while there is an Ukranian one in the air if they are even in the same area considering that flying right on the border, the radar makes it as far as Kiev, which while good, you are still missing a big chunk of coverage over the actual battlefield.


Detail of an abandoned M1A1SA near Berdychi

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At this point the modernized VAL, a rare ASM, is probably more interesting and puts this guy in a Spetznaz squad.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
In a way I almost want to see NATO countries send their troops to Ukraine. I wonder what's the contingency plan between Putin and Xi for this exact scenario.

NATO soldiers are in already in Ukrainian, have been since the start, and they were not just doing training or advising roles. A lot of them ended up going home in body bags.

All of this dog and pony show about gifting Ukraine F16s is just a figleaf to allow NATO air power to get directly involved with some plausible deniability.

Personally, I expect the F16s to do as well as Leo’s and Abrams. A lot of hype, but they will die as easily as their Russian equivalents when fighting a peer adversary who enjoys the numerical and technological advantage.

So NATO forces in Ukraine doesn’t actually change the reality on the ground since NATO forces are already directly engaged in Ukraine against the Russians.

The only thing that will change the equation is if NATO forces moves in en mass. But that is frankly impossible without full American support as the rest of NATO frankly doesn’t have the numbers or quality of weapons to be able to challenge the Russians much more than the Ukrainians.

If America goes all in on Ukraine, that’s basically WWIII as it would be Russia and China vs NATO, which isn’t going to happen as America wants to get all its mates together to gang up against just China in Asia.
 
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