The War in the Ukraine

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ISW also provides their own version of these advances. Their theory is that the Russian "Army Group North" 50-35K men intend to advance within artillery tube range of Kharkiv (well within 25KM), and reestablish the situation in 2022 where the city was enveloped and freely shelled. Then from their new positions they will use it as a launching pad to soften Kharkiv and launch an offensive operation for the city in the far future. Meanwhile, the opening of a new front will divert resources and units from the Eastern front, softening up the defenses on those axis.

Overall I agree with this theory, providing that they sustain the offensive operation- if this theater gets very active the advances in the East may increase as the Ukr ground force is stretched.

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This could be day 1 of a sustained offensive- with the first day being recon-in force.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
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ISW also provides their own version of these advances. Their theory is that the Russian "Army Group North" 50-35K men intend to advance within artillery tube range of Kharkiv (well within 25KM), and reestablish the situation in 2022 where the city was enveloped and freely shelled. Then from their new positions they will use it as a launching pad to soften Kharkiv and launch an offensive operation for the city in the far future. Meanwhile, the opening of a new front will divert resources and units from the Eastern front, softening up the defenses on those axis.
In 2022 Russia did not have the UMPK.

Overall I agree with this theory, providing that they sustain the offensive operation- if this theater gets very active the advances in the East may increase as the Ukr ground force is stretched.
Russia is basically increasing the length of the front to see if the Ukrainian defense becomes even weaker. It is pretty weak as it is. The Russians were already advancing faster than usual before the latest intervention at Kharkiv began.
 
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In 2022 Russia did not have the UMPK.


Russia is basically increasing the length of the front to see if the Ukrainian defense becomes even weaker. It is pretty weak as it is. The Russians were already advancing faster than usual before the latest intervention at Kharkiv began.

I do agree that the UMPK has been a real 'game changer' and in a way it has supplanted Russian tube artillery & their annihilation by hectare techniques. The Russians do not have as much artillery shells as they did in 2022, which has changed the tactics and nature of the combat in 2024.

However there is still a risk of losing fighter-bombers when they drop their payloads from air defense, and tube artillery is a relatively cheap asset that can demolish block after block of housing.
 

Tam

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I do agree that the UMPK has been a real 'game changer' and in a way it has supplanted Russian tube artillery & their annihilation by hectare techniques. The Russians do not have as much artillery shells as they did in 2022, which has changed the tactics and nature of the combat in 2024.

However there is still a risk of losing fighter-bombers when they drop their payloads from air defense, and tube artillery is a relatively cheap asset that can demolish block after block of housing.

They now have the UMPB. It may have been more active than presumed, because we assume every big explosion is a FAB. But we only see the end result, and a rocket powered glide bomb launched from a Tornado-S is what we may not see from the start. (I posted a link about a FAB with UMPK attack, but later revealed to be UMPB). A UMPB D30 might be the equivalent to a FAB-250, so it doesn't have the bang of a FAB-500 and FAB-1500, but you can have multiple launches from it, not unlike where we see four FAB-250s hit a position.
 

blackjack21

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The radar is TAM/IQ=65 and the launcher is PACK-4-GTFO.

A single launcher and a single radar in the middle of a clearing is a decoy!!!
I have no idea if your serious or trying to humor us but were you here when the Russians were dropping FABs all over Avdeevka that the Ukrainians decided to move 2 patriot launchers closer to that area to get destroyed or will you claim those were decoys to? A fair amount of patriots' sound like they are getting destroyed if they are asking for more.

@MarKoz81
"Russia lost: 3000 MBTs, 6000 IFV/APCs, 1000 artillery, 300 MLRS. With two years of use another 3000 tanks and 3000-6000 apcs must be in overhaul in factories and frontline repair units. The Russian offensive that is very plausibly coming any day now - today's incursion is likely a probing/shaping operation - will be mostly infantry and drones judging by the current size of Russian army (150% pre war at minimum)."

You know our boy Tam is an undefeated champion with his dedication of posting all destroyed Ukrainian assets here and not once has someone beaten him here in the ring of more destroyed Russian equipment than the Ukrainian ones. Perhaps maybe you should review Ukrainian tweets or telegram posts since February 22, 2022 to the present day of destroyed Russian assets and count the losses yourself and try to compare them if they are not taken from Russian sources or they triple counted of the same destroyed equipment.

How much Ukrainian assets you think got destroyed with your claims? if you state that 1st than we will see your posts vs Tams posts and see if those claims of yours make sense to the statistics of actual Ukrainian and Russian losses.
 
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Proton

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The main reason for the Russian push seems to push ukranian lines far away from Belgorod (yesterday Belgorod was again bombed hard).l, specially in the background of new HIMARS deliveries and so on.

However I don’t know why people is so sure that Russia is not able to encircle Kharkov. It will not happen in a day, but as far as I can see the Ukrainian army currently is basically unable to hold fortified positions in Donbass.

I don’t see how people think that they are going to be able to hold ground in a far less fortified Kharkov area agains a newly introducing Russian force of 50-100 thousand soldiers.

To appropriately defend Kharkov they would need to divert resources that they don’t have from the central donbass area.

We are not in 2022 with intact Ukrainian army, we are 2 years later and Ukraine has suffered massive casualties these years while Russia has far more manpower and weapons than then.

Ukraine is barely holding donbass, and now they will be more stretched needing to defend also Kharkov.
Most likely situation is hard loses in both fronts during the summer
The point is that the entire city is one big fortification, capable of hosting a garrison of immense strength.
If the Ukrainians post 50,000, mostly lightly armed, soldiers there, then surely Russia will need several times more troops to capture the city, with massive amounts of heavy equipment.
Defenders wouldn't just have the advantage of immense protection, but also the ability to move unhindered within the city, countering any assault and mustering local superiority in any area of the frontline. And the potential of outside attacks the siege would put immense requirements for securing the 90 km frontline needed for an encirclement.

We're not talking about Mariupol, which was lightly defended and easily cut off without much resistance. Nor are we talking about Gaza, which is similar in scope, but could be easily divided in sectors and with isolated defenders who has mostly basic light weapons and zero heavy weapons, plus no real outside support. Kharkiv is another type of beast entirely, with far more sturdy buildings than Gaza, a circular structure - preventing sectoring - well armed defenders, very difficult to cut off and with the potential for massive outside support.

The defensive position is such a great force multiplier, trying to surround it would quickly erode any Russian advantage across the front line. I'd think the only way of taking Kharkiv, unless the Russians want to raze all of it, is essentially to overwhelm Ukraine across the entire front, forcing them to shorten it.
 

Tam

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Of course it's a decoy so much so nobody posted it in here for hours until Tam took the bait.


I can be wrong but IMO it's not a fake. A fake would have been made of wood and light sheet metal and would have blasted away to kingdom. Instead the launcher is still standing there likely heavily damaged but still still standing there. If that was a decoy it sure is made of sturdy stuff.

Another thing was that there were things left burning in the forests around it, suggesting there were more equipment than the two. In the extended version, which I already posted previously, there was a firefighting vehicle and an evac vehicle that came close to the scene. You don't bring those vehicles in if it were just a fake.

As the launcher didn't explode, it surely didn't have missiles.


Other channels are saying this is Tornado-S. Once again there's a mixup of attributing between Iskander and Tornado-S and I mentioned this phenomenon previously.
 

NinoNino

Just Hatched
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Even if it is a decoy, launching an Iskander would still be worth it. If anything, for propaganda video. Or that 5% chance of it being the real thing.
 

Santamaria

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The point is that the entire city is one big fortification, capable of hosting a garrison of immense strength.
If the Ukrainians post 50,000, mostly lightly armed, soldiers there, then surely Russia will need several times more troops to capture the city, with massive amounts of heavy equipment.

The defensive position is such a great force multiplier, trying to surround it would quickly erode any Russian advantage across the front line. I'd think the only way of taking Kharkiv, unless the Russians want to raze all of it, is essentially to overwhelm Ukraine across the entire front, forcing them to shorten it.
I understand the nuances of attacking a city against a well armed force.

The question is, does Ukraine has such force any more?
Can they move 50k troops from Donbass front and commit them to defend Kharkov?
Can they reduce their ammo expenditure in Donbass in order to supply the Kharkov group with ammunition?

Since Russia is introducing new troops whatever Ukraine does loose their grip in both fronts.

But even if Ukraine would commit 50k not very well armed troops to defend Kharkov, nothing stop Russia for encircling it. They encircled Kiev with around 20k..
Then is simply question of time that the garrison in the city gives up, without supply of ammo, fuel and food.

At the time the strategy didn’t work but the Ukrainian army was in full force then, and not in the depleted state it is now.
 
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