Even if BSF where to buy say a 075, it would just be a fat target and not very useful for amphibious attack on Odessa unless the escorts are also up to the job.
The War in the Ukraine
- Thread starter SampanViking
- Start date
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Smells like preparation for the endgame. I always thought the Ukrainian war will end when NATO inevitably pulls the plug on financing and arms shipments and the mighty Ukrainian army just evaporates like the much vaunted Afghan National Army.
At that point, bordering NATO countries will make land grabs of eastern Ukrainian provinces and it will be basically a race to contact to see how much they can grab before meeting the freely advancing Russians. At which point they will gamble that the Russians won’t have the stomach for a new direct war against NATO and call it a day instead of pressing for all of Ukrainian.
The French troops are tripwire troops there to signal to the Poles and Romanians that they have the full support from ‘core’ NATO countries like France (as it will be dicey whether Article 5 will apply if their troops are attacked by the Russians directly while on Ukrainian soil at that point, since Russia will claim all of Ukraine as Russian territory) to go in and they won’t be left to flap in the breeze alone if the Russians start blasting upon contact. They are also there to raise the stakes for Putin in that if he does order his troops to engage encountered NATO soldiers, he will be fighting the French and not just Poles and Romanians. Although this message may be undercut somewhat by the fact Macron is sending the the foreign legion. The most expendable of French forces.
I mentioned it. No need for LHD in first place when cruisers lack budget for CIWS. The subsequent error are error on top of this one.
Russia should not be shy of attacking land grabbers. First fire warning shots, then conventional attacks. If they dare to shoot back, then they can enter a long direct fight with Russia. I doubt they will fight better than 2022 Ukrainians. Once casualties mount in their undeclared invasion, internal chaos ensures.
Guys ... you are again on a slim path into forbidden land! Namely Russia-NATO war discussions and as such I kindly ask all to stop right now even more with such provocative and false claims like "land grabbers"; the only one in this conflict who is grabbing land from a sovereign country with a guaranteed border is Russia!
Deino. You sure are putting a lot of weight behind respecting another country's borders. But NATO did not respect Ukrainian independence by sponsoring coups in Ukraine. Twice. Against the Helsinki Final Act and the UN Charter.
The US sent its politicians to actively incite the insurgents against the government in the 2014 Coup in Ukraine. And we have recordings with Nuland and Pyatt (US Ambassador in Ukraine) basically selecting who would be in the transition government.
The claim of the current government in Ukraine being democratic is also a bunch of baloney. The opposition in Ukraine was outlawed and jailed. The people also voted for a candidate who claimed would be running on a peace platform for Donbass. Instead after his election he seems to have fully embraced the project to violently squash the insurgency in Donbass.
The US and its allies also partitioned Kosovo from Serbia. The Russians are just playing by the same rulebook.
The US sent its politicians to actively incite the insurgents against the government in the 2014 Coup in Ukraine. And we have recordings with Nuland and Pyatt (US Ambassador in Ukraine) basically selecting who would be in the transition government.
The claim of the current government in Ukraine being democratic is also a bunch of baloney. The opposition in Ukraine was outlawed and jailed. The people also voted for a candidate who claimed would be running on a peace platform for Donbass. Instead after his election he seems to have fully embraced the project to violently squash the insurgency in Donbass.
The US and its allies also partitioned Kosovo from Serbia. The Russians are just playing by the same rulebook.
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Again, we have discussed this almost endlessly and I'm pretty sure we won't find an agreement here on this issue! As such I agree we disagree. As we won't open again this can of worms on if legal, how far a war is then a legal action to counter whatever!
Anyway, there is a clear rule: NO NATO-Russia War talk, no such provoking terms like "land-grabbers" which again pushes this discussions into exactly this forbidden territory and even more so no Nuclear war scenarios here!
And this is my final word! END OF DISCUSSION.
Anyway, there is a clear rule: NO NATO-Russia War talk, no such provoking terms like "land-grabbers" which again pushes this discussions into exactly this forbidden territory and even more so no Nuclear war scenarios here!
And this is my final word! END OF DISCUSSION.
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What do you think the long term prospect for Russia is in Ukraine?
If this curent slow grind continues, it will take forever to takeover Ukraine if steady flow of European Arms continue. Europeans with their hawkish tone seems to be very serious to keep supporting Ukraine with billions of Euros of aid. So, even if US bails out, Europe is enough to keep Ukraine afloat with arms and money for the government workers.
If years down the line, despite the European support Ukraine starts to lose the will to fight, or gets exhausted, they might just try to get a Minsk 3 agreement to stop Russian advance and use the pause to buildup. Russia then will have to decide how exhausted they are in terms of losses in manpower and government budget deficit. Cause they don't have a backer like Ukraine has.
Russia can get to a stable border like the Dnieper river and stop. Or they may think this is now or never and go all the way. It really is a hard decision to make.
If this curent slow grind continues, it will take forever to takeover Ukraine if steady flow of European Arms continue. Europeans with their hawkish tone seems to be very serious to keep supporting Ukraine with billions of Euros of aid. So, even if US bails out, Europe is enough to keep Ukraine afloat with arms and money for the government workers.
If years down the line, despite the European support Ukraine starts to lose the will to fight, or gets exhausted, they might just try to get a Minsk 3 agreement to stop Russian advance and use the pause to buildup. Russia then will have to decide how exhausted they are in terms of losses in manpower and government budget deficit. Cause they don't have a backer like Ukraine has.
Russia can get to a stable border like the Dnieper river and stop. Or they may think this is now or never and go all the way. It really is a hard decision to make.
The Russians stated the terms for the Special Military Operation right when it started. The Russian President stated their objectives. Denazification and neutralization. The Russians won't accept a non-neutral Ukraine.
Like I said before, you could expect a similar situation to what happened to Finland in WW2. Russian troops would be indefinitively stationed inside Ukraine to guarantee their neutrality and Ukraine would need to get rid of all their heavy weapons. Armor, rocket artillery, etc.
As for how much territory Russia will take over the next years, it depends really. Russia already decided it needs a security cordon to guarantee the safety of its own territory, they will push the Ukrainians back to establish this. If it will be enough to be outside conventional artillery range, HIMARS range, or Storm Shadow range, it depends on the availability of those weapons and their use by Ukraine.
Like I said before, you could expect a similar situation to what happened to Finland in WW2. Russian troops would be indefinitively stationed inside Ukraine to guarantee their neutrality and Ukraine would need to get rid of all their heavy weapons. Armor, rocket artillery, etc.
As for how much territory Russia will take over the next years, it depends really. Russia already decided it needs a security cordon to guarantee the safety of its own territory, they will push the Ukrainians back to establish this. If it will be enough to be outside conventional artillery range, HIMARS range, or Storm Shadow range, it depends on the availability of those weapons and their use by Ukraine.
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