The War in the Ukraine

Lol of course US as the world's no2 economy can outproduce Russia, in both qualitative and quantitative weapons/goods if needed.

It's also pointless for the US, since they are already behind in order to fuel their ambitions elsewhere. So yeah maybe they can make a couple thousand more shells/rockets total than Russia, and they defintely can make more 5th gens given how much the Su57 sucks. Great achievement, if all US' ambitions only amounted to being marginally more powerful than Russia lmfao.

The new cope here from the nato aligned is that they can totally send so many tanks, MLRS, planes whatever, and Russia doesn't have any equipment in production left. There's a simple end to any arguments here, if you have all that equipment, then why not send more, so that Ukrainians do not need to mobilized the 1 armed and those with congenital defects? Russia isn't the army that's aging decades with every season.

If your government isn't sending despite you saying they should have x amount to spare. Well, possibly theyre privvy to knowledge and priorities you don't have. But more probably, they just fell for Russian propaganda and you need to remind them!

What does it mean that the west has been "deindustrialized" btw? Their industry has been sold out to the US own bourgeoisie monopoly? Even then, Germany and UK still has a competitive national bourgeoisie

So what does it mean anyway?

RottenPanzer said:

What does it mean that the west has been "deindustrialized" btw? Their industry has been sold out to the US own bourgeoisie monopoly? Even then, Germany and UK still has a competitive national bourgeoisie

So what does it mean anyway?

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My understanding is that the proportion of the economy dedicated to manufacturing has decreased. It doesn't necessarily mean a decrease in total output though (in dollar value or goods produced) overall, though it can also mean those things as well.

So it can be an absolute decline in that you just manufacture less goods (so less people employed and the value of production drops), but also that the employment drops while the value of goods produced stays the same or similar due to automation or other efficiencies gained. New industries can arise as well to offset the decline of others.

I am sure someone has come up with a more concise definition and better criteria.

I've seen numerous articles that mention that not only did China's rise contribute to decline in US manufacturing, but automation also contributed to a reduction in the labour needed to produce the same amount.

Sheleah said:

You are talking to me about equipment and ammunition that is not produced in the West, where the US has managed to rid countries of equipment of Russian/Soviet origin, to supply Ukraine, in exchange for delivering Western equipment, obtaining considerable sales...

The West asks Morocco for T-72s of Soviet origin. In exchange, it sells equipment such as Himmars, as well as consultancy and logistics, and even negotiates sending troops to the country... is the US losing something in that transaction?

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Morocco replaced the T-72s for US M1A2SEPv3 tanks. Which means the US will have less of those tanks available for their own purposes.
Having US M1A2SEPv3 tanks in Morocco helps the US 0% in defeating its main strategic rivals that is China and Russia.

Any HIMARS they send to Morocco, are also less HIMARS sent to Ukraine, Taiwan, and NATO Europe.

Sheleah said:

As for the munitions of Russian/Soviet origin that the West negotiates to deliver to Ukraine, it is not undermining its inventories at all, and if there is a war, many NATO armies are contracting considerable supplies....

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Except those countries in NATO which used to be part of the former Warsaw Pact used that kind of ammunition as well. As did Finland. Guess who those countries border. They are sending supplies to Ukraine and weakening their own defense. And now they will also need to replenish those supplies as well. The demand keeps going up much faster than the supply. And the price goes to infinity and beyond of course.

Sheleah said:

The Germans, without being at war, agree to contracts to supply ammunition to their army... while Russia produces goes to the front, who is in the best position regarding inventories?

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They can sign all the contracts they want. Where are the shells?

This is getting offtopics. Go debate in American economics thread. Since US is no longer contributing to Ukraine, US economic is irrelevant.

What are the result of Russian bombardment yesterday?

Serb said:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1724426962167271855

North Korea directly outproduced the EU in the delivery of artillery shells 2x to Russia this year.

It's not a question of who has more money, inflated nominal GDPs, will, etc...

It's about who has actual tangible industry, assets, factories, workers, etc.

The West has the money, but they are de-industrialized.

Those 5, 10, and 20, year, plans of increasing production you can throw into the garbage.

That's not how economics work. To increase production and open more factories,

You need to build back all the previous industrial ecosystems you once had,

But now doesn't, industrial infrastructure, skilled and willing workers, willing to work there,

It's not like magic and poof you will increase production just by throwing money and saying so.


This is a great article exactly on this topic:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

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i wonder if they can do something like this: DPRK sends most of its shells, even the newer ones, to Russia, for a small payment in oil or food or whatever it wants. China then restocks DPRK arsenal from its own stockpile, which undoubtedly is very large. China gets paid by Russia in RMB or natgas.

Please continue the ability of US vs. Russia steel production or deindustrialization discussions in the US economics thread please.

TK3600 said:

What are the result of Russian bombardment yesterday?

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It is impossible to know. Russian side would not publish information to obscure its intel capabilities. And you can get 10 years in prison if you post photo or video of a missile strike in Ukraine, so there is only carefully redacted propaganda from Ukrainian media now.

drowingfish said:

i wonder if they can do something like this: DPRK sends most of its shells, even the newer ones, to Russia, for a small payment in oil or food or whatever it wants. China then restocks DPRK arsenal from its own stockpile, which undoubtedly is very large. China gets paid by Russia in RMB or natgas.

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DPRK can restock its arsenal without China help. It is actually having significant artillery and artillery ammo production due to being heavy militarized. It is huge benefit for NK actually, because they get grain and oil just for utilizing production capabilities that they are forced to retain either way due to SK and US threat.

And those with actual access to high res commercial Satellite imagery (They are paid service BTW) are also quite stingy in sharing in open source either due to want to support Ukraine or because their imagery got stolen without proper accreditation by various "OSINT" Accounts.

Battle of Avdiivka. English speaking mercenary unit gets wiped out and the Russians got hold of their GoPro camera and it's contents.


Damaged M2A2 Bradley in Avdiivka.


Ukrainian positions in Krynki gets TOS'ed.


German Leopard gets hit by Lancet on the right bank of Kherson.


Ukrainian soldier found in Krynki discovered to have disabilities.


Departure from Ukraine now impossible as Ukraine steps up border guards.


Burning building in Kherson was used by the AFU. It's known that the AFU uses industrial enterprises to barracks personnel, store vehicles, weapons and ammunition. This building was attacked by Gerans.


Explosions in Dnipropetrovsk. Culprits are X-59 attacks.


The next battle of Artemovosk. 98th VDV advances on Ukrainian fortifications.


Ukraine building Dragon's Teeth in the Kharkhiv region. A year ago people were criticizing, doubting and laughing at the installation of Dragon's Teeth in the Surovikin's Line.


The Lviv armored tank factory took several hits from X-101.


Not a good idea for Ukrainians to set up headquarters, barracks and depots within Krasnopol range of the state border with Russia.