The War in the Ukraine

Cult Icon said:

You have good points about the high level of organization and resources needed to de-mine the front for the breakthrough operation.

Ukraine may not be up to it. I see very small numbers of de-mining vehicles, they would need masses of such kit. Also prior to this battle they have a severe ammunition shortage and lost ammo dumps to VKS interdiction in the months prior.

I know from studying the battle of Kursk that the German forces used a great many battle-hardened combat engineer battalions (every division had one, and there were also general-headquarters assets) to slowly de-mine each echelon of Soviet minefields. This could take half a day or even a day, and the Operation Zitadel was massively delayed by days. After they cleared the first line of Soviet defense, the engineers had to work on the second line. And the third.

But this was in 1943, and modern technology & techniques makes such operations magnitudes more dangerous. The Ukranian forces likely lack such a high level of engineering skill and assets, which contributed to the failure.

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A parallel for the Ukrainian side would be the Russian assaults at Vuhledar, even with artillery advantage, they failed to break through Ukranian lines. There's no subterfuge, no smart tactics nor wunderwaffe when facing a prepared position along the entire front, you must punch through with a strong thrust in a single go, losing a pound of flesh in the process.

Half measures will do nothing but bleed you dry, as we have seen both recently and in Russia's own offensives. If it wasn't for mines it would be ka-52, artillery or atgms, defenders simply have a vast advantage as they have to come to you.

Bakhmut was not taken through smart tactics, superior equipment or super soldiers, they razed building by building while sending in endless waves of infantry to CQC through high rises, they simply invested more resources than Ukraine could reply with.

So, looks like Russia needs same boost for artirelly.

Curious about the deepness of the Chinese 152 mm stock.

Anlsvrthng said:

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So, looks like Russia needs same boost for artirelly.

Curious about the deepness of the Chinese 152 mm stock.

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Looks like it is Iranian ammunition, they packed the chinese shell with Iranian charge and packed into a new box.


Interesting.

Temstar said:

These guys are 47th Separate Mechanized Brigade, they are supposed to be one of the best trained and best equipped units in AFU. You're not going to find more experience troops than this on their side other than any remaining veterans from 2014-2022 or 82nd Air Assault Brigade.

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47th wasn't experienced, it's a new unit after all. it's one of western-trained, which isn't exactly the same.
This many can see already, in that they act differently in same tactical situations, very unlike other Ukrainian (or Russian) formations.

Tge idea probably was to get as close to a true NATO mechanized formation as possible. Results are controversial - and we already saw that old BDes complained that why the F western 'noobs' get valuable sets of western equipment first - and waste it in dozens.

Counterargument here, i guess, is very straightforward - older formations are valuable precisely in that their experience and training matches their equipment.

Overall: 'western' BDes are sorta disappointment compared to the old ones, and failed to match the expectations.
Which is perhaps unfair, because it was their baptism of fire.

Highly probably the Ukrainian casualties in Kramatorsk were American SpecOps

Anlsvrthng said:

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Looks like it is Iranian ammunition, they packed the chinese shell with Iranian charge and packed into a new box.


Interesting.

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Note on the shell it says "杀爆"(anti-personnel high explosive), only the second character is in the defunct . This would indicate the shell was produced between 1977-1986. It's almost certainly an export to Iran during the Iran-Iraq war where China sold a lot of military goods to both sides.

Laser guided or Krasnopol like strike but this is from a 122mm D-30 howitzer. This means the Kitolov-2 shell is at play. Kitolov-2 is like a 122mm version of the 152mm Krasnopol. There is another version for 120mm mortars called Gran or the Kitolov-2M, another for Tyulpan called Smel'chak and another one for Pion and Malka howitzers. This means the entire gamut of Russian artillery has access to laser guided munitions.


Russian FPV drones have a name. They are called Gadfly and are manufactured in Russia.


Mastiff blew up in Zaporozhye. I'm not sure of the cause if it's artillery, ATGM, RPG, or mine.


UR-77 mine clearance vehicle used in a spectacular direct attack in the flanks of Artemovsk. Based on the fire it hit something valuable that has fuel on it.


Alligators on the hunt.



Tankers of the 1st Slavyansk Brigade in action around Avdiivka. Highly veteran unit in the Donetsk wars.


A new flying wing UAV was first used in the Sumy region. This can be the S-70 drone or the Shahed 161 or 171.


Soldiers of the obtf Kaskad in action with air support.


Ukrainian assault near Artemovsk observed by Russian drones. You can see the work of a Ukrainian mine clearance vehicle used ahead of the assaulting forces.


Tank of the Marines of the Russian Northern Fleet using tank fired ATGMs to take out Ukrainian tanks and APCs near Artemovsk.

Regarding the Chinese origin 152mm ammo again:

Someone pointed out another interesting aspect of this picture. Recall previous discussion in this thread about possible Pakistani 122mm ammo following Chinese spec bursting Ukrainian 122mm guns:

The charge for this 152mm round is dated 2018, visibly newer and lacking any Chinese writing and is unlikely to be the original that came with the shell. This charge could be a domestic Iranian production and safe for Soviet spec guns. Iran may have helpfully packaged this new charge with old Chinese shell to make it safe for Russian use in the Soviet origin D-20.

Additional stuff.

Ka-52 strike on vehicle


Using mortars but it appears with laser guided munitions. Points to either Gran or Kitolov 2M usage. By the 68AK group in Ugledar.


FPV drone attacks on Ukrainian trench positions in Avdiivka by the 1st Slavyansk Brigade.


FPV drone attack in Krasno Limansky. Area under Russian offensive.


More vehicles hunted down by Alligators.