The War in the Ukraine

Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
Some of the pushes are a repeat of Russian blunders in Ugledar. An Ukranian column is pushing through an open field when one of the vehicles hits a mine, the other vehicles stop and get peppered by artillery

Minefields are a pain because they are so effective. Imagine the second vehicule following the first that got destroyed, you know if you stop you will be a prime target for artillery and atm but if you turn back or bypass the doomed vehicule you know that you will probably find another mine and blow yourself up. They cannot carpet bombing in front of each advancing column and if the first is a demining one, it will be the first to receive an ATGM.

If Russian forces have some ISDM Zemledeliye remote mine-laying system, they can replenish mines field between waves... Like that it's just starting back to the first case after each waves.

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Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
So, let chrunch same data.

For the Wagner, with 50k man it took close to one year to move from Popsana to Bakhmut, good 15 km .
They had air defence, air force, and artirelly allowance 6-10 times bigger than the Captiol can dream of.

And, even with extreme use of artirelly, and cutting down all trees in thebetween popsana and bakhmut with 152mm shells, they suffered 15-40% unrecoverable losses. On 15 km.


So, let me be skeptical about the prospect and realistic of any sensible Ukrainan gain with 70k force, drip feeded ammunition , no air defence, and other side half year worth of industrial scale fortification efforts on the Russian side, and many other benefit.
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
Minefields are a pain because they are so effective. Imagine the second vehicule following the first that got destroyed, you know if you stop you will be a prime target for artillery and atm but if you turn back or bypass the doomed vehicule you know that you will probably find another mine and blow yourself up. They cannot carpet bombing in front of each advancing column and if the first is a demining one, it will be the first to receive an ATGM.

If Russian forces have some ISDM Zemledeliye remote mine-laying system, they can replenish mines field between waves... Like that it's just starting back to the first case after each waves.
Or the Russians used remote controlled scrap BMPs due to this reason.

It will blow up anyway, and cost less money than a real demining .
 

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
Minefields are a pain because they are so effective. Imagine the second vehicule following the first that got destroyed, you know if you stop you will be a prime target for artillery and atm but if you turn back or bypass the doomed vehicule you know that you will probably find another mine and blow yourself up. They cannot carpet bombing in front of each advancing column and if the first is a demining one, it will be the first to receive an ATGM.

If Russian forces have some ISDM Zemledeliye remote mine-laying system, they can replenish mines field between waves... Like that it's just starting back to the first case after each waves.

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We were all predicting this back in the winter.
With all the announcements of an imminent counteroffensive, naturally there were defensive preparations by the Russians.

I was beginning to think that any counteroffensive was just blustering to give more time to build up forces and hope the Russians became overconfident to attack.
 

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
Leopard 2A4 has worse armor than some later T72 mods while being much taller targets. I wouldn't envy anyone who had to drive that against enemies that shoot back with anything more than AK-47s.
The armor most people pay attention to isn't the most important one, until you get into a classic CW armoured engagement.

The armor that matters first is side&rear armor, especially - hull one, but also - vulnerability of the drive train.

Main threats - artillery/MLRS fire(splinters, AT clusters, also smart top attack), mines (classic, stacked, smart side&top attackers), ATGMs(not from the front).

Western MBTs are weaker in this regard (their armor more concentrated - so weaker parts are both weaker and larger, both in proportion and due to sheer size), yet "eat" more damage.

I would be careful to draw conclusions yet, but first contact was rather uninspiring.

if it will go on like this, conclusions will be ugly.
 

FriedButter

Colonel
Registered Member
CNN posted an interesting article today. Ukraine is taking losses in heavy equipment and soldiers with losses among MRAPs marked as significant. Russian resistance were also greater than they expected during the first attempt according to unnamed senior US officials.

Ukrainian forces suffer ‘stiff resistance’ and losses in assault on Russian lines​

Ukrainian forces have suffered losses in heavy equipment and soldiers as they met greater than expected resistance from Russian forces in their first attempt to breach Russian lines in the east of the country in recent days, two senior US officials tell CNN.

One US official described the losses – which include US supplied MRAP armored personnel vehicles as “significant.”

Ukrainian forces managed to overrun some Russian forces in the east around Bakhmut. However, Russian forces, armed with anti-tank missiles, grenades and mortars, have put up “stiff resistance,” with their forces dug into defensive lines that are several layers deep in some areas and marked by minefields that have taken a heavy toll on Ukrainian armored vehicles.

US and Western officials have been bracing for the counteroffensive for months, moving to shore up Ukraine’s defenses ahead of its start. This week, Ukraine’s Deputy Defense Minister Hanna Maliar said an offensive was “taking place in several directions.”

“It is not only about Bakhmut. The offensive is taking place in several directions,” Maliar said. “We are happy about every meter. Today is a successful day for our forces.”

Anyone have an estimate on the size of the initial Ukrainian offensive? CNN reporting there is a much larger planned offensive in the works with current losses having little impact it.

Both US officials say the losses are not expected to impact the larger planned Ukrainian counteroffensive. US and western officials long expected the counteroffensive to take time and put Ukrainian personnel and equipment, including Western-supplied systems, at high risk.
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FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
I think he definitely has a point in the beginning, but has an uncanny ability turn any incident into a long charade blaming Russia. What we know is that the dam has withstood such high levels of water previously, so while I do believe that the dam rupture was not delibrate, damage incurred during the war must be the likely cause. If Ukrainian shelling has no effect on the dam, then why would they delibrately target it repeatedly with one of the most advanced weapons supplied to them by the US? Also, it seem pretty ridiculous for Russia to take full responsibility for the rupture since it is impossible to perform maintenance on the dam due to its position on the front line. He is literally setting Russia up for failure by using impossible goals, which is basically what MSM does everyday.
I just asked a simple technical question: how can 2 oscillations with 7 orders of magnitude different frequency cause resonance with each other? Based on my education and experience, the answer is, they can't. So I just want him to elaborate on why he thinks the dam collapse is a resonance phenomenon.
 
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