The War in the Ukraine

Well I guess "minimal damage" meant a scratch on the paint or damaged wheel because the launcher is back operational.

Something tells me the Russians aren't done with this Patriot battery.

More explosions in Kyiv just occurred

Right_People said:

That is simply not true.

The AFU has lost important units almost entirely in the area.
The SoF have virtually ceased to exist,

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What constitutes SOF? Not to mention source?

Right_People said:

as the high command has had the brilliant idea of not committing the 8 new brigades

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A good move, since these I think 12 new brigades, including the western trained ones and the storm brigades, are needed for a Ukrainian counteroffensive.

Right_People said:

and instead using the SoF among other units to fill the gap. Besides the SoF other important elite units such as Aidar or the Pravy Sector elite have suffered heavy and important casualties.

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Also source needed. Besides, Aidar and whatever mishmash of elite units deployed there are mainly deployed to defend the Bakhmut roads to prevent encirclement. Aidar have released footage of them defending said lifelines. These "elite units", like Aidar, Azov, and the Foreign Legion, are under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, not the regular ZSU. I wouldn't even call them elite, to be frankly. Face it, the Ukrainian forces there are made up of TDF, UAF regulars like the 92nd and 93rd, and a hodgepodge of whatever they can find thrown into the fray. Meanwhile, their actual elite forces are training for a counteroffensive.

Right_People said:

One of the advantages of the way the Ukrainian army operates in since 2014 many military and militia officers have become personalities is that it is very easy to verify which units are fighting.


So the claim that the AFU is losing "second rate units" is simply untrue, my own sources in the AFU tell me about the losses in the area...

If anyone has benefited from the attrition in this area it is Russia, which has not only taken the city (with 8 Soviet flat blocks left) but a significant part of the damage has been absorbed by a subcontractor with many units being penal battalions ...

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So you're telling me that after almost a year of fighting, 10s of thousands of casualties, they've managed to take a single town, and have not made a dent on the Western trained force. So tell me, what's the whole point of this again. Attrition? The only people who are getting grinded down are Wagner. I'm pretty sure they'll cease to be a participant after this battle. And it's not like they're even taking advantage of it. The lines have basically remained static all winter.

Right_People said:

MOD EDIT: Removed names/photos of KIA.

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Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Botnet said:

What constitutes SOF? Not to mention source?

A good move, since these I think 12 new brigades, including the western trained ones and the storm brigades, are needed for a Ukrainian counteroffensive.

Also source needed. Besides, Aidar and whatever mishmash of elite units deployed there are mainly deployed to defend the Bakhmut roads to prevent encirclement. Aidar have released footage of them defending said lifelines. These "elite units", like Aidar, Azov, and the Foreign Legion, are under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, not the regular ZSU. I wouldn't even call them elite, to be frankly. Face it, the Ukrainian forces there are made up of TDF, UAF regulars like the 92nd and 93rd, and a hodgepodge of whatever they can find thrown into the fray. Meanwhile, their actual elite forces are training for a counteroffensive.

So you're telling me that after almost a year of fighting, 10s of thousands of casualties, they've managed to take a single town, and have not made a dent on the Western trained force. So tell me, what's the whole point of this again. Attrition? The only people who are getting grinded down are Wagner. I'm pretty sure they'll cease to be a participant after this battle. And it's not like they're even taking advantage of it. The lines have basically remained static all winter.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

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i see a lot of parallels with WWI, where you have years of fighting over the same towns, and the lines not moving in either direction by more than a dozen kilometres. however eventually one side will experience a catastrophic failure due to attrition, its just a matter of which side. as it stands it looks more like ukraine will suffer this fate than russia.

Another attack on Kyiv this time only cruise missiles were used and claimed all to be shot down.

Looks like subsonic non stealthy cruise missiles have become non viable against nations with dense IADS. Those many US tomahawks are staring to look useless now.

SolarWarden said:

Another attack on Kyiv this time only cruise missiles were used and claimed all to be shot down.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1659033122648870918

Looks like subsonic non stealthy cruise missiles have become non viable against nations with dense IADS. Those many US tomahawks are staring to look useless now.

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This is why I don't take Ukrainian claims seriously.

Hits observed





"Objects and warehouses at the airport are disabled School, again under attack bridge in Sharpening and the main transport artery. Affected targets in village areas Kotovsky and Krasnoselka near the regional center."

And more.

"Impact on the « Zorya – Mashproekt » plant in Nikolaev

Today, the Russian Defense Ministry announced the launch of a high-precision weapon strike at a large ammunition depot equipped in a ship repair company in Nikolaev.

The Ukrainian side habitually reported the defeat of all missiles by air defense forces, but the reality turned out to be somewhat different. Fisherman's team managed to confirm defeat Block of the workshops of mechanical and heat treatment of the plant.

Coordinates: 46.931143, 32.044519

On the frames, clearly visible windows that have flown out on about a thirty-meter part of the structure. This confirms the damage of the building and detonation from the inside.

Assessing the damage caused (smaller than the explosion of warehouses with artillery shells in Khmelnitsky), it can be assumed that the plant most likely equipped a warehouse of high-precision weapons."

Tam said:

This is why I don't take Ukrainian claims seriously.

Hits observed

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"Objects and warehouses at the airport are disabled School, again under attack bridge in Sharpening and the main transport artery. Affected targets in village areas Kotovsky and Krasnoselka near the regional center."

And more.

"Impact on the « Zorya – Mashproekt » plant in Nikolaev

Today, the Russian Defense Ministry announced the launch of a high-precision weapon strike at a large ammunition depot equipped in a ship repair company in Nikolaev.

The Ukrainian side habitually reported the defeat of all missiles by air defense forces, but the reality turned out to be somewhat different. Fisherman's team managed to confirm defeat Block of the workshops of mechanical and heat treatment of the plant.

Coordinates: 46.931143, 32.044519

On the frames, clearly visible windows that have flown out on about a thirty-meter part of the structure. This confirms the damage of the building and detonation from the inside.

Assessing the damage caused (smaller than the explosion of warehouses with artillery shells in Khmelnitsky), it can be assumed that the plant most likely equipped a warehouse of high-precision weapons."

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Debris causes damage sometimes warhead doesn't detonate when intercepted by blast frag missiles.

Botnet said:

What constitutes SOF? Not to mention source?

A good move, since these I think 12 new brigades, including the western trained ones and the storm brigades, are needed for a Ukrainian counteroffensive.

Also source needed. Besides, Aidar and whatever mishmash of elite units deployed there are mainly deployed to defend the Bakhmut roads to prevent encirclement. Aidar have released footage of them defending said lifelines. These "elite units", like Aidar, Azov, and the Foreign Legion, are under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, not the regular ZSU. I wouldn't even call them elite, to be frankly. Face it, the Ukrainian forces there are made up of TDF, UAF regulars like the 92nd and 93rd, and a hodgepodge of whatever they can find thrown into the fray. Meanwhile, their actual elite forces are training for a counteroffensive.

So you're telling me that after almost a year of fighting, 10s of thousands of casualties, they've managed to take a single town, and have not made a dent on the Western trained force. So tell me, what's the whole point of this again. Attrition? The only people who are getting grinded down are Wagner. I'm pretty sure they'll cease to be a participant after this battle. And it's not like they're even taking advantage of it. The lines have basically remained static all winter.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

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The Ukrainian 8th Special Regiment(CSSO-UA SOF /8OP) is finished in Bakhmut.(Picture 1) The wreckage also shows losses of other Ukrainian units in Bakhmut including Kiri mine protected vehicles from the 1st Battalion of the 36th Independent Naval Infantry Brigade(Picture2) and Dingo from the 77th Independent Air Assault Brigade(Picture3), and these are just some statistics from the beginning of May this year to now and do not take into account the Ukrainian input in Bakhmut from last year to April this year. If I remember correctly, Ukraine has committed 68 brigade numbers, so the actual losses are much more than you claim.

You are missing the real issue here, the 93rd Brigade these brigades that existed before the war fought far more than those formed by those who were temporarily drafted during the war, because training someone to become a professional soldier and familiar with the equipment is a long process, an example is the Leopard 2 tank collision by the Ukrainians. This takes at least a year, and it is unrealistic to expect a quick-fire NATO-equipped brigade to have a greater combat capability than the existing Ukrainian brigade.

Anlsvrthng said:

Targeting radar on the S-300 can turn and choose a driection ,but on hte patriot the missile can't.

I don't want to start to calculate the loss of the range because the patriot has to shoot backward, but I can assume it could easly be in the half range. And speed. And dramatically reduced killzone.

In the canister of the patriot the main engine ignited, it accelerate with 13-20g for 12 sec.
acceleration length is 10 km ish.

It hasn't got too much space for turning. Addiitonaly, best part of the patriot missiles hasn't got thrust vector control , means the missile has to accelerate to a high speed to start to turn.

View attachment 112800
Only the PAC-2 GEM has thrust vector control.
Compare it to S-300View attachment 112801
All of them has thrust vector control.


There can be missile/topographical / engagement confuguration when the launcher could be way off from the radar, but it is more likelly rare exception, than an usable feature.

Radar has to see the missile , missile has to see the radar and target, and it is true for 90% of the possible targets.


We still scratch the surfce, but the backwardness of the latest patriot is quite visible compared to the oldest S-300 systems.

The main characteristic of the patriot is the cheapness and to achieve it they made endless compromise.

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S-300 and Patriot engagement angle is limited by the FCR. Unless there is more than one, then a missile attack from multiple angles will defeat both regardless of omnidirectional launchers on the S-300. That’s why I sad the advantage is academic.

That’s unlike AEGIS that has full 360 degree coverage and omnidirectional launchers for good reason.

PAC-2 GME can rapidly change course post launch, but usually that’s done to intentionally bleed energy for a low altitude close range engagement. The same is done by the S-300. The video says fail, but this maneuver was intentional (Patriot does
the same):

Botnet said:

What constitutes SOF? Not to mention source?

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Ukrainian special forces consist of 4 regiments in the regular army. To this should be added special forces units within the national guard as used to be Azov, as well as militias with SoF units such as Pravy.
Ukraine had quite large special forces which makes sense in the context of a limited conflict as would have been another scenario like 2014.

Botnet said:

Also source needed. Besides, Aidar and whatever mishmash of elite units deployed there are mainly deployed to defend the Bakhmut roads to prevent encirclement. Aidar have released footage of them defending said lifelines. These "elite units", like Aidar, Azov, and the Foreign Legion, are under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, not the regular ZSU. I wouldn't even call them elite, to be frankly. Face it, the Ukrainian forces there are made up of TDF, UAF regulars like the 92nd and 93rd, and a hodgepodge of whatever they can find thrown into the fray. Meanwhile, their actual elite forces are training for a counteroffensive.

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Azov became a regular brigade months ago and therefore under the control of the army, not the ministry, and I don't understand why you look down on the interior ministry units, when in fact they are usually better trained, equipped and motivated than the regular army.
The salary of an Azov soldier was 4x that of a Ukrainian regular thanks to private employers, this was reflected in the equipment as well obviously.

Also face what?
I myself posted images from Facebook and other official accounts lamenting the loss of Ukrainian soldiers from the most elite units, soldiers with names and surnames, the above comment lists specific equipment, lost by specific elite units. How then can these elite units be taking losses, if they are not there?

Botnet said:

A good move, since these I think 12 new brigades, including the western trained ones and the storm brigades, are needed for a Ukrainian counteroffensive.

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Sadly, I have friends in the AFU and they disagree.