The War in the Ukraine

Shadow_Whomel said:

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The Ukrainian 8th Special Regiment(CSSO-UA SOF /8OP) is finished in Bakhmut.(Picture 1) The wreckage also shows losses of other Ukrainian units in Bakhmut including Kiri mine protected vehicles from the 1st Battalion of the 36th Independent Naval Infantry Brigade(Picture2) and Dingo from the 77th Independent Air Assault Brigade(Picture3),

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Again, like I said, a mishmash of units being thrown in to keep the Russians busy. We've had elements of a variety of Ukrainian units at Bakhmut at point or another before getting rotated out. And these vehicles aren't recent donations either, so its clear they aren't sending the cream of the crop. This just seems like a ploy to buy time.

Shadow_Whomel said:

and these are just some statistics from the beginning of May this year to now and do not take into account the Ukrainian input in Bakhmut from last year to April this year. If I remember correctly, Ukraine has committed 68 brigade numbers, so the actual losses are much more than you claim.

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The Ukrainians have not committed 68 brigades to Bakhmut. If they did, Wagner would still be on the outskirts of the town.

Shadow_Whomel said:

You are missing the real issue here, the 93rd Brigade these brigades that existed before the war fought far more than those formed by those who were temporarily drafted during the war, because training someone to become a professional soldier and familiar with the equipment is a long process, an example is the Leopard 2 tank collision by the Ukrainians. This takes at least a year, and it is unrealistic to expect a quick-fire NATO-equipped brigade to have a greater combat capability than the existing Ukrainian brigade.

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Not really, many of these Western vehicles are going to existing, veteran brigades. For example, the 4th Tank Brigade is getting Leopard 2s, while the 25th and 80th Assault Brigades are getting Challenger 2s.

After the Kharkiv counteroffensive and the withdrawal from Kherson, there was a lot of doomerism in this thread. Now, it seems that attitude has completely flipped. What happened between then? Did the Russians sweep through Donetsk oblast? Did they achieve major gains in their vaunted winter offensive? Nothing of the sort happened, so I'm confused as to why everyone seems so upbeat. Because every time the Ukrainians have attacked, the Russians were beaten back.

Russian ATGM pops Ukrainian EW post.


Ukrainian DRG gets hit by Russian ATGM.


'Domino' section of the Bakhmut 'citadel' being reduced to rubble by Wagner heavy artillery.



Ukrainian positions in Marinka rained by incendiaries. These are launched from a BM-21 Grad.

gelgoog said:

Did you even bother watching the video of the Patriot attempted intercept? There are detonations on the ground inconsistent with intercepted missiles. Right after the Patriot battery went into overdrive unloading all its missiles in one go. And we have definite proof a lot of those interceptors did not hit anything, since a lot of them ended up pretty much intact on the ground.

Ukraine is just lying about the interceptions as usual. Good luck trying to intercept a Mach 10 missile with a Mach 4 interceptor.

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Looks like damage was less than minimal. Still not a good look for Ukraine personnel needing to call US personnel to tell them what is all this debris around the launcher

Botnet said:

I mean, I would say Russia is the one that's trying to emulate WWI. Ukraine seems set on maneuver warfare. It's highly unlikely this war will drag on for more than a year or two past this.

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Nothing wrong with WW1 style fighting. If you ever served in any western army, you will understand the basic training provided to everyone was ww1 trench style training. If you read the recently published russian document, i live, i fight, i win, you will understand the reality of this war. possibley up to 90% of the casulty are due to artillery.

If you look at historic fighting, it has always been missle projectile. Jets bombs/ cruise missle are no different than artillery, it is a form of missle range bombardment.

digging trench save lifes. both side will fight ww1 style, because it is the best way to preserve man power.

Krasnopol strikes seems to become more common. Here is a destroyed or disabled vehicle in the road to Bakhmut. The targeter which is from Wagner did not pursue the attack as the vehicle is already burning.


A vehicle taken down by Wagner on the Bakhmut supply road using a Krasnopol.


MSTA-B howitzer in Kupyansk knocked out by a Krasnopol round.


This is how a local ammo depot is identified. The truck is shadowed and watched carefully by the drone as it goes into this particular building. The warehouse is then lit up for a Krasnopol strike and the resulting fireworks will confirm a concentrated inventory of munitions there.

generalmeng said:

Nothing wrong with WW1 style fighting. If you ever served in any western army, you will understand the basic training provided to everyone was ww1 trench style training. If you read the recently published russian document, i live, i fight, i win, you will understand the reality of this war. possibley up to 90% of the casulty are due to artillery.

If you look at historic fighting, it has always been missle projectile. Jets bombs/ cruise missle are no different than artillery, it is a form of missle range bombardment.

digging trench save lifes. both side will fight ww1 style, because it is the best way to preserve man power.

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Fighting in Ukraine resembled WWI because neither side is capable of cutting off the logistic train to the trenches.

Having trenches doesn't mean WW1. Every major (conventional) war since WW1 has had trenches. I'm sure the Russians dug more trenches in WW2 than all trenches dug in WW1.

Trenched warfare the way is being fought in Ukraine (ww1 style) wouldn't exist if one side had air superiority.

Botnet said:

Also source needed. Besides, Aidar and whatever mishmash of elite units deployed there are mainly deployed to defend the Bakhmut roads to prevent encirclement. Aidar have released footage of them defending said lifelines. These "elite units", like Aidar, Azov, and the Foreign Legion, are under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, not the regular ZSU. I wouldn't even call them elite, to be frankly. Face it, the Ukrainian forces there are made up of TDF, UAF regulars like the 92nd and 93rd, and a hodgepodge of whatever they can find thrown into the fray. Meanwhile, their actual elite forces are training for a counteroffensive.

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These units are "elite" because they have high morale, high co-ordination, and ability to maneuver.

Your assertion that a "hodgepodge of whatever" Ukraine can find is what's in Bakhmut is equally as baseless.

Botnet said:

So you're telling me that after almost a year of fighting, 10s of thousands of casualties, they've managed to take a single town, and have not made a dent on the Western trained force. So tell me, what's the whole point of this again. Attrition? The only people who are getting grinded down are Wagner. I'm pretty sure they'll cease to be a participant after this battle. And it's not like they're even taking advantage of it. The lines have basically remained static all winter.

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Even Michael Kofman (who is extremely conservative with his words) has opined that the current Ukrainian army is completely different from the Western trained force that was there at the start of the war. Bakhmut has not been a good fight for Ukraine, even if the alleged casualty ratios of 5:1 are true. Western analysts who have been to the actual city have said so.

Russian media reporting the Ukrainians fired 32 missiles in their attempt to shoot down the Kinzhal missile. If true, that's insane lack of resource management. The Americans expected the Ukrainians to only use 100 Patriot missiles a month. That would be a third of their monthly allowance in one day covering one city. At $6 million a pop.