The War in the Ukraine

baykalov

Senior Member
Registered Member
So today the Deputy Head of Zelensky's Office, Igor Zhovka, said in an interview with Sky News that: "Unfortunately the level of equipment that Ukraine has is still not enough to launch the Counter-Offensive". Adding that Zelensky went on a tour of Europe in order to secure additional military aid packages.

NYT: The Latest Rift Among Ukraine’s Allies Is Whether to Send F-16s

The United States is resisting a European push for the powerful fighters. But will it relent, as it did before with tanks, rocket launchers and air defense missiles?

A fresh push by Britain and the Netherlands to provide Ukraine with F-16 fighter planes has exposed the latest fault line among Western allies who have wrangled repeatedly over sending powerful weapons of war, once again pitting a reluctant United States against some of its closest European partners.

Several European allies are prepared to give their F-16s to Ukraine. But the Biden administration, which must approve any transfers of the American-made planes, remains unconvinced that Ukraine needs the expensive jets, which are a staple of many modern military arsenals.

So deep is Washington’s skepticism that Kyiv’s pilots are currently not even allowed to train on the F-16s that are owned by European states, according to a senior Ukrainian official who spoke on condition of anonymity to frankly discuss the sensitive diplomatic issue.

American reluctance to allow training would severely limit a proposed new European coalition to help Ukraine obtain and fly F-16s — whether in the current conflict or to protect against any future aggressions by Moscow after the West turns its focus from the 15-month war.

“What’s really important here is to signal to Russia that we as nations have no philosophical or principled objection to supplying Ukraine capabilities that it needs, depending on what is going on in the battlefield,” the British defense minister, Ben Wallace, said on Wednesday in Berlin. He added: “This is up to the White House to decide whether it wants to release that technology.”

In Washington, a senior U.S. official said the Biden administration was still reluctant to send Ukraine its own F-16s, in part because the plane’s multimillion-dollar price tag would absorb too much of an already-dwindling pot of war funding. Instead, the U.S. official said, the administration is more concerned with speeding other American weapons to Ukraine in time for a counteroffensive against Russia, and that in any case the jets would not reach the battlefield for months at least — presumably, long after that battle had begun.

The U.S. official also spoke on condition of anonymity, as did four other senior Western officials in Washington and Europe who were interviewed for this story.

This would not be the first time the Biden administration had resisted allied demands to send more powerful and sophisticated weaponry to Ukraine. In each case it eventually reversed itself, allowing the transfer of powerful HIMARS missile launchers, Abrams tanks and Patriot air defense missiles.

And the U.S. official did not rule out the possibility of the Biden administration issuing re-export licenses to European militaries, enabling them to transfer their F-16s to Ukraine. Later Tuesday, after Britain and the Netherlands announced their so-called “fighter coalition,” Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken and the Dutch foreign minister, Wopke Hoekstra, spoke by phone to discuss Ukraine and other issues.

Mr. Hoekstra said on Wednesday that “we haven’t reached a solution yet” in what another senior European diplomat described as a slow-moving and difficult discussion.

“When we are ready to cross that bridge and are ready to communicate this, we will,” Mr. Hoekstra said.

The Netherlands is one of four European countries that the senior Ukrainian official said have quietly signaled they are ready to send F-16s to Kyiv. Its fleet, along with those of Denmark and Belgium, could provide at least 125 combat-ready F-16s, according to the International Institute for Strategic Studies, a British think tank that assesses military stockpiles globally. Norway, which retired its unspecified number of F-16s last year in a switch to the more advanced F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, is also ready to contribute, the Ukrainian official said.

Kyiv is asking — for now, at least — for only between 24 and 36, the official said.

Earlier this week, the British prime minister, Rishi Sunak, said the United Kingdom would begin training Ukrainian pilots, starting this summer, as part of a plan “with other countries on providing F-16 jets.” His announcement, wrapped in a new package of military aid, came during a visit to London by President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine.

Without explicit American approvals, however, the training is likely to be limited to what the senior Ukrainian official described as merely technical language and tactical lessons that pilots would be taught, without ever touching an F-16.

With its powerful radar that can spot targets from hundreds of miles away and modern missiles, the F-16 contains classified and other highly restricted systems that the United States does not want duplicated or falling into hostile hands. It is among classes of weapons for which even allies must gain “releasability” permission from the Pentagon just to discuss the technology with outside partners, like Ukraine, a senior Defense Department official said.

Last month, Poland and Slovakia said they had sent Ukraine more than 20 Soviet-era MiG-29 fighter jets in advance of the counteroffensive. But Ukraine’s leaders have said the F-16 is better equipped to protect against airstrikes and to evade Russia’s own warplanes.

The Biden administration has frequently resisted sending more powerful weapons to Ukraine for fear of Moscow escalating its attacks. The concern has quieted of late because it is no longer clear, short of nuclear weapons, how Russia could escalate any more than it has.

“Giving Ukraine F-16s will deter Russia rather than ‘provoke’ it,” Ukraine’s foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba, urged last month. “Time to take this step.”

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Right_People

Junior Member
Registered Member
Having suffered heavy losses from the Lancets in recent months, Ukrainian anti-aircraft forces have resorted to the most radical measures to protect their S-300PS SAM launchers.

The AFU has erected huge ten-metre masts with a net stretched between them in the hope of catching a Lancet flying into them.

photo_2023-05-18_11-51-13.jpg

Cope cage vs Cope Net XDDDDD
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Debris causes damage sometimes warhead doesn't detonate when intercepted by blast frag missiles.
Did you even bother watching the video of the Patriot attempted intercept? There are detonations on the ground inconsistent with intercepted missiles. Right after the Patriot battery went into overdrive unloading all its missiles in one go. And we have definite proof a lot of those interceptors did not hit anything, since a lot of them ended up pretty much intact on the ground.

Ukraine is just lying about the interceptions as usual. Good luck trying to intercept a Mach 10 missile with a Mach 4 interceptor.
 

Intrepid

Major
... Good luck trying to intercept a Mach 10 missile with a Mach 4 interceptor.
That makes an approach speed of Mach 14. Perhaps Mach 13 or Mach 12 would be easier to handle? A fast interceptor is only advantageous because then the destruction of the enemy weapon takes place further away from the target of the attack.
 

Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
One thing for sure, Soviet/Russian ejections seats are incredibly efficient. The amount of planes Ukraine received and lost is probably way higher than their number of pilots. Survivability to get in another plane asap was a doctrine of most ejection seat designs. Cheap aircrafts in number and good ejection seats. Would be interesting how many time their remaining pilots have ejected from aircrafts.

 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Despite cope cages and cope nets, a Gvozdika SPG gets hit by a Lancet. I regard artillery SPGs most valuable in the battlefield today, even the old ones.


Polish supplied Krab SPG gets hit by Lancet.


Russian ATV team fires ATGM in a shoot and scoot against Ukrainian positions.


In Kupyansk, a Ukrainian command post gets hit by artillery. Although the description in the video failed to mention it, this is a Krasnopol strike.


Russian FPV drone hits a Ukrainian vehicle.

 

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
So today the Deputy Head of Zelensky's Office, Igor Zhovka, said in an interview with Sky News that: "Unfortunately the level of equipment that Ukraine has is still not enough to launch the Counter-Offensive". Adding that Zelensky went on a tour of Europe in order to secure additional military aid packages.

NYT: The Latest Rift Among Ukraine’s Allies Is Whether to Send F-16s

The United States is resisting a European push for the powerful fighters. But will it relent, as it did before with tanks, rocket launchers and air defense missiles?
The only reason why F-16s would help would be if the Ukrainians have ran out of Mig-29s. I assume that is close to actually happening. F-35s in particular would be more of a concern, but it seems like the Americans lack the confidence to test the platform right now. A-10s also seem out of the question even though I think they would be ideal for the Ukrainians. Presumably the MIC don't want that platform getting any positive publicity.


Based UK, pushing for other European countries to give their F-16s to the Ukraine.
 

Botnet

Junior Member
Registered Member
i see a lot of parallels with WWI, where you have years of fighting over the same towns, and the lines not moving in either direction by more than a dozen kilometres. however eventually one side will experience a catastrophic failure due to attrition, its just a matter of which side. as it stands it looks more like ukraine will suffer this fate than russia.
I mean, I would say Russia is the one that's trying to emulate WWI. Ukraine seems set on maneuver warfare. It's highly unlikely this war will drag on for more than a year or two past this.
 
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