The War in the Ukraine

SolarWarden

Junior Member
Registered Member
satellite imagery of the patriot AD system in kiev
Um... Is there a better image? I don't know what those 6 dug out structures are it's too blurry.

Same with this guys claim of today's airfield SAT image it's just too blurry to be certain of his claim.

However his claim about two launchers I can accept since we see on video of the barrage patriot launch of the missiles launching from two areas of the airfield. Two launchers of Pac 3's equals 32 missiles and some counted 30 launches... Those 2 launchers were out of missiles. Wonder what the other launchers were doing.
 

Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
However his claim about two launchers I can accept since we see on video of the barrage patriot launch of the missiles launching from two areas of the airfield. Two launchers of Pac 3's equals 32 missiles and some counted 30 launches... Those 2 launchers were out of missiles. Wonder what the other launchers were doing.
They had two Pac-3 launchers and the rest was Pac-2 Launchers on the US system they received.. Pac-2 is designed more for anti-aircraft/cruise missiles with a frag warhead, Pac-3 are direct hit shorter ranged designed more for antimissiles. They used what was best against missiles strike if it was indeed a missiles strike.

Didn't see a lot of explosions in the air and on the ground for the amount launched. Targets priorization is probably not well established with the short training they received, maybe they even didn't have the chance to train for that.

It look they got baited to reveal position to local spotter. The system was probably seen in the region and lots of decoy used to make them react. If it's the launchers that got damaged, they don't emit so they where geographical targeted with drones/video/informator.
 
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Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
That doesn't make any sense. Surely it's harder to target a platform if there is only a single one of them, compared to dozens of thoses?
If you intend to destroy it and you know from informator in which region, is quite easy to focus on it. It like it was the only medium range system active arround Kyev.
 

typexx

Junior Member
Registered Member

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
They had two Pac-3 launchers and the rest was Pac-2 Launchers on the US system they received.. Pac-2 is designed more for anti-aircraft/cruise missiles with a frag warhead, Pac-3 are direct hit shorter ranged designed more for antimissiles. They used what was best against missiles strike if it was indeed a missiles strike.

Didn't see a lot of explosions in the air and on the ground for the amount launched. Targets priorization is probably not well established with the short training they received, maybe they even didn't have the chance to train for that.

It look they got baited to reveal position to local spotter. The system was probably seen in the region and lots of decoy used to make them react. If it's the launchers that got damaged, they don't emit so they where geographical targeted with drones/video/informator.
The Ukrainians have the GEM-T variant which is designed for ballistic missiles.

I agree training is a big culprit, Ukrainians have been operating Soviet SAMs for ever, vs. 2.5 months of training on Patriots.
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
The directional canisters are not nearly as much of a drawback as you make it sound:
1) The FCR on both the Patriot and the S-300 covers a small sector in azimuth and elevation. Having omnidirectional launchers is an academic advantage that in practice cannot be utilized
2) The missiles can change course post launch. Iron Dome also has directional launchers and does just fine.

The Patriot in Ukraine is technologically superior to the S-300. It is able to intercept Kinzhal ALBMs, unlike the S-300 Ukraine fields.
Targeting radar on the S-300 can turn and choose a driection ,but on hte patriot the missile can't.

I don't want to start to calculate the loss of the range because the patriot has to shoot backward, but I can assume it could easly be in the half range. And speed. And dramatically reduced killzone.

In the canister of the patriot the main engine ignited, it accelerate with 13-20g for 12 sec.
acceleration length is 10 km ish.

It hasn't got too much space for turning. Addiitonaly, best part of the patriot missiles hasn't got thrust vector control , means the missile has to accelerate to a high speed to start to turn.

pac.jpg
Only the PAC-2 GEM has thrust vector control.
Compare it to S-300300.jpg
All of them has thrust vector control.
Patriot launchers do not have to be close to radar they can be miles from it this is a known fact.

In 1993, the Army upgraded Patriot to a support remote launch capability, allowing launchers to be deployed up to 10km from the radar.
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This reportedly quintupled the system’s defended area from 10-20 square kilometers to roughly 50-100 square kilometers.
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Successive upgrades to the system’s Patriot Advanced Capability-2 (PAC-2) missiles and radar achieved further improvements in performance.
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Patriot radar could have been miles from these launcher in Kyiv also could have placed a decoy radar near launchers.

There can be missile/topographical / engagement confuguration when the launcher could be way off from the radar, but it is more likelly rare exception, than an usable feature.

Radar has to see the missile , missile has to see the radar and target, and it is true for 90% of the possible targets.


We still scratch the surfce, but the backwardness of the latest patriot is quite visible compared to the oldest S-300 systems.

The main characteristic of the patriot is the cheapness and to achieve it they made endless compromise.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Ukrainian command post antenna in Kherson hit by something --- first strike. Too fast to see or identify. I suspect either a Krasnopol or Tornado S strike.


Seversk starting to heat up. Three large strikes against Ukrainian positions by the 123rd Brigade of the Southern Group.


Ukrainian Smerch hit by Lancet.


Bridge linking Chasov Yar hit by Krasnopol and destroyed.


Hidden Ukrainian artillery piece spotted and silenced by Krasnopol.


Arrival of two cruise missiles at Kiev with two explosions.

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SolarWarden

Junior Member
Registered Member
Ru MOD said a multifunctional radar station was hit and completely destroyed, and 5 launchers of the PATRIOT anti-aircraft missile
Explosions in odessa
they might have been targeting the IRIS-T Battery or Weapon storages
Poor Odesa. Maybe the other PAC battery or SAMP-T battery should be deployed there instead of S300.

The RussianMoD report was lulz it reminded me of their claim of destroying many HiMARS.
 

memfisa

Junior Member
Registered Member
Well i guess they werent kidding when they said they havent even started yet. The Russians are incrementally increasing their precision strikes for weeks and months.

The last few days has been pretty impressive based on the array of weapons launched. For a country that ran out of missiles a year ago, its mind boggling to see the numerous missile configurations they are using to systematically disassemble what was one of the toughest IADS systems on earth.

Seems to me they are perfecting an impressive DEAD doctrine.
 
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