The War in the Ukraine

Intrepid said:

and there should be plenty of space between the individual components. The components that are unique are the vital ones for the system. The launchers are replaceable.

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That assumes Ukraine got a full battery, that they had the foresight to space them properly(or the area where they were deployed has enough space for such) and discounts the fact that the Kh-47 has a 250kg warhead. While Ukraine has gotten some of the latest stuff, evidence so far shows they aren't getting the full complement of anything and everything is piecemeal and in the video itself we can se the battery not firing anymore after 32 missiles which would indicate that it only had two PAC-3 launchers available

Damaging just a single one of those two launchers means a 50% reduction in interception capability for that battery, no matter how you spin it. Can it be replaced?. Sure, but how long will it take while that gap exists and can be further exploited by Russia.

At the end of the day, is all especulation and unless the Ukranians release pics(or they get leaked) claims can go either way and US claims are just as reliable as that of the RuMoD or UkrMoD unless provided with proof.

That being said, if we had witnessed a similar situation with an S-400 battery, with even just a TEL getting taken out but the rest of the battery being operative(as some are claiming about the Patriot), you and a few others would have gone out of your way to claim how Russian air defense is a failure and the S-400's are shit, so...


Another depot went up, this time in Nikolaev

sheogorath said:

That assumes Ukraine got a full battery ...

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The Bundeswehr says a battery consists of a minimum of three and a maximum of eight launchers. Ukraine received one US and one combined Dutch-German system.

Intrepid said:

The Bundeswehr says a battery consists of a minimum of three and a maximum of eight launchers. Ukraine received one US and one combined Dutch-German system.

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And Regiment/Battallion/Brigades/whathaveyou also have a minimum set of units but thats hasn't stopped the Ukranians from fielding underequiped and undermanned units as shown by the leaks.


France claims yesterday attack on Kiev was a "war crime"

Ukraine says they will regulate street cameras so it doesn't record air defence. Probably also makes it easier to control the narrative during fuck ups and makes it easier to cope on twitter

There is a claim going around that an anomymous NATO officer comented that the Ukranians lost 1700 people in a single day during one of their push on Bakhmut's flanks and are trading people for ground in those areas but I haven't been able to find something more reliable than a blog as primary source.

Long but interesting analysis regarding the UAF gains around Bakhmut. Basically, considering the training, experience and equipment of the units involved in the attack and those of the defending side, Ukranian gains have been modest specially when taking into consideration the heavy losses they seem to be incurring in against Russian units that are average at best, including recently absorbed LNR units.

Part of the issue is that to avoid losing the element of surprise, Ukraine avoids massive groupings of equipments and soldiers but this also hinders their ability to coordinate the offensive

Apparently SuperCum actually meant SuperCam

sheogorath said:

Apparently SuperCum actually meant SuperCam

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1658811639095873538

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Funniest typo in a while

baykalov said:

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20k to potentially put your life at risk?
LMAO
Then again, it makes sense they are hiring from North Africa and Middle East

Tam said:

There's no proof that 100+ vehicles are lost in Ugledar during the initial phase, and quite frankly many of the videos I have seen are repeats of the few vehicles that were destroyed in the front of the attack, including the T-72 that had a drone dropped grenades into it after it was already destroyed and abandoned in the initial charge.

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Some people (me) actually follow pro-Ukrainian media accounts. I think Deepstate made a video detailing every single vehicle lost. Oryx has also been

Tam said:

Because the brigade is alive and kicking and still kicking butt as it goes, that alone puts doubts to claims of Russian losses.

Bakhmut is 99% now under Russian control as the 'Nest' within the 'Citadel' has fallen along with other sections.

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After almost a year. I don't know how this can be classified as some brilliant success. At this rate they'll take Donetsk in a decade.

MOD EDIT: deleted escalatory language

Anlsvrthng said:

Distance between the missiles and radar restricted, they has to be quite close.

And the radar use RF to communicatie with the launchers, so that can be picked as well.


But nevertless, to target the launchers HARDER job than to target the radar.


And the patriot is a backward system compared to the S-300, it has hot launch, directional casiters, not cold launch vertical ones.

Means after set up the patrior has blind spots , compared to the oldest S300 which is omnidirectional.

And these are the differences before we get into the controler and data exchange systems.

So, it is not integrating with the radards/launchers of the Ukrainans, they haven't got maintanance and operation expertise on any level. It is primitive and technologically backward, means easier to destroy, and gives less protection.

But , as a bonus, the two system in Ukraine could exhaust in short period of time the whole USA SAM inventory. Maybe Russia want to trigger that, and they spared the radar due to this reason.

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The directional canisters are not nearly as much of a drawback as you make it sound:
1) The FCR on both the Patriot and the S-300 covers a small sector in azimuth and elevation. Having omnidirectional launchers is an academic advantage that in practice cannot be utilized
2) The missiles can change course post launch. Iron Dome also has directional launchers and does just fine.

The Patriot in Ukraine is technologically superior to the S-300. It is able to intercept Kinzhal ALBMs, unlike the S-300 Ukraine fields.

Anlsvrthng said:

Distance between the missiles and radar restricted, they has to be quite close.

And the radar use RF to communicatie with the launchers, so that can be picked as well.


But nevertless, to target the launchers HARDER job than to target the radar.


And the patriot is a backward system compared to the S-300, it has hot launch, directional casiters, not cold launch vertical ones.

Means after set up the patrior has blind spots , compared to the oldest S300 which is omnidirectional.

And these are the differences before we get into the controler and data exchange systems.

So, it is not integrating with the radards/launchers of the Ukrainans, they haven't got maintanance and operation expertise on any level. It is primitive and technologically backward, means easier to destroy, and gives less protection.

But , as a bonus, the two system in Ukraine could exhaust in short period of time the whole USA SAM inventory. Maybe Russia want to trigger that, and they spared the radar due to this reason.

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Patriot launchers do not have to be close to radar they can be miles from it this is a known fact.

In 1993, the Army upgraded Patriot to a support remote launch capability, allowing launchers to be deployed up to 10km from the radar. This reportedly quintupled the system’s defended area from 10-20 square kilometers to roughly 50-100 square kilometers. Successive upgrades to the system’s Patriot Advanced Capability-2 (PAC-2) missiles and radar achieved further improvements in performance.

Patriot radar could have been miles from these launcher in Kyiv also could have placed a decoy radar near launchers.