The War in the Ukraine

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
I read on twitter one of the reasons the Ukrainians were firing off so many patriot missiles at once was because they knew a Kinzhal was inbound and to reduce the missile stockpile when they got hit.

Anyone know if that would be standard procedure?
 

SlothmanAllen

Junior Member
Registered Member
Is this the first time Patriot has been tested against modern missiles?

If the Russians know where the launch sites and radar stations are located, how long can they be reasonably expected to last? Eventually they will run out of missiles, but what I think is more likely is that eventually a Russian missile will get through and destroy some of the Patriot infrastructure. No Surface to Air Missile system is 100% effective, so it is only a matter of time before the currently deployed Patriots become ineffective.
 
D

Deleted member 24525

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The Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation launched a combined attack with long-range precision-guided air- and sea-based weapons against the AFU units, as well as depots of ammunition, weapons and military equipment supplied by Western countries.
...
U.S.-manufactured Patriot surface-to-air missile system has been struck by Kinzhal hypersonic glide vehicle in Kiev.


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A US-made Patriot air defense system was likely damaged, but not destroyed, as the result of a Russian missile barrage in and around Kyiv early Tuesday morning local time, a US official tells CNN.

The US is still assessing to what degree the system was damaged, the official said. That will determine whether the system needs to be pulled back entirely or simply repaired on the spot by Ukrainians forces.
I know its autistic but Kinzhals are not glide vehicles they're just aero ballistic missiles, Avangard is the glide vehicle and it works but they can only afford to make enough for their nuclear forces
 

SolarWarden

Junior Member
Registered Member
I don't know what minimal means as damage for a patriot but it's starting to look like a launcher was slightly damage since the Patriot battery is still operational

Russians did this all wrong there should have been 2 waves of missiles maybe the second wave 5 minutes behind the first with more missiles than the first wave?

Meanwhile HiMARS is still active in taking out known high value targets within range.
 

HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
I know its autistic but Kinzhals are not glide vehicles they're just aero ballistic missiles, Avangard is the glide vehicle and it works but they can only afford to make enough for their nuclear forces
It's just not that type of missile. It's a strategic weapon. It uses an ICBM as a launch platform, it would be dumb to use it in Ukraine. It's like using a Minuteman rocket to hit a terrorist training camp, completely inappropriate weapon for the type of mission we are seeing in Ukraine.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
The Avangard can carry a nuclear or conventional warhead. It is a strategic weapon but it can be used to strike targets like hardened bunkers with conventional warheads by taking advantage of its high kinetic energy. Similar to US Prompt Global Strike program.
 

BoraTas

Captain
Registered Member
I don't know what minimal means as damage for a patriot but it's starting to look like a launcher was slightly damage since the Patriot battery is still operational
Patriot, like most long range air defense systems, is not a single item. It is a collection of vehicles. Like most of the recent air defense systems, there can be kilometers between the vehicles. There is usually a single radar, a control vehicle, and multiple launchers. Minimal damage to the battery likely means a launcher was lost. The battery can continue functioning just fine if that's the case. It just lost some of its magazine depth and some areas will be covered in a less optimal way. But the battery is still functional.
Russians did this all wrong there should have been 2 waves of missiles maybe the second wave 5 minutes behind the first with more missiles than the first wave?
No. A single large wave is the best approach. You ideally want all missiles to arrive simultaneously. That puts the most stress on air defense.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Russia has the Kh-31PD anti-radiation missile with 250km range. It can out range Patriot.
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So they could take out the radar outside the battery range if they wanted to.

This is basically a modernized version of the Kh-31 with extended fuel tanks and miniaturized and modernized electronics.

Kh-31PD has 250km range vs 160km range for Patriot PAC-2. PAC-3 uses a high speed, short range, missile meant for defense against ballistic missiles.
 
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H2O

Junior Member
Registered Member
DU is a heavy metal, it will damage your body if it's Inhaled or ingest. Specifically, Uranium is a toxic chemical, meaning that ingestion of uranium can cause kidney damage from its chemical properties much sooner than its radioactive properties would cause cancers of the bone or liver.
I should have been more clear. I wasn't questioning the effects of DU. I was questioning the narrative that there were DU munitions stored in that location where Russia attacked. The reason was that the spike in radiation is the 'smoking gun' for the existence of DU munitions stored at that location. From what I've read, the spike in detected radiation is not high enough (hence the exposure comment via air travel) and that there have been recorded spikes long before the war started. Of course, this is assuming the reports are genuine. Naturally, time will tell by looking at the health of the local population.


Missiles for the Patriot are simply too expensive.
It is practically the reason why the Israelis developed the Iron Dome.
From what I read, it comes down to confidence than costs.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
I don't know what minimal means as damage for a patriot but it's starting to look like a launcher was slightly damage since the Patriot battery is still operational

Russians did this all wrong there should have been 2 waves of missiles maybe the second wave 5 minutes behind the first with more missiles than the first wave?

Meanwhile HiMARS is still active in taking out known high value targets within range.

That's only an old style Buk-M1. As this is short range it tends to be situated close to the front. My observation is that a lot of attributes to HIMARS might be more likely to attributed to Excalibur shells instead.


Not related. Posting to save space and unnecessary post count.

Russian air strike at Avdiivka once again.


Drone assisted indirect fire from tank into a Ukrainian position via 1st Slavyansk Brigade of the DPR. Such procedures are common these days and it changes the way tanks are getting used in the battlefield.

 
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