The War in the Ukraine

Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
Probably fake.
Although yesterday it was reported a Su-57 destroyed a Su-24 carrying Storm, so maybe there is a "few" but for sure not 7.

I wont even mention the 6 Khinzal thing...
But a Geran cost like 20k euros, the motor is literally a motorbike motor.
I doubt making or just taking a Kh-22 out of storage for using a decoy cost much, they are CRAZY primitive things. And also we have confirmation of yesterdays attack involving a Kh-55 in decoy configuration mode since it had no warhead.
Stock of Kh-55s is probably in the thousands ...

View attachment 112709

No warhead
If they have only one SU-24 modified, it's impossible to launch 7 storm shadow in a short time anyway. In 24 hours maybe, giving time to reload, lift-off and check-up but it's searching to be downed bigtime. Repeating the same action is asking for trouble. Anyway intercepting all of them is a bit of fantasy like the 6 Kinzhal. Need to boost moral each side and also selling popcorns for the show.
 

SolarWarden

Junior Member
Registered Member
Looks like Patriot did its job and survived being attacked. Also Patriots always fire two missiles per target just incase same with USN firing 2 SM2/SM6 per target.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
What was the cost to Russia for this attack? If indeed they did shoot 6 kinzhals and a bunch of cruise missiles/Gerans the pure economics may be pretty even.
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Gerans ~0.02 million each.

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l.

Kinzhals unknown but the breakeven point is $150 million each, and I somehow doubt that a single Kinzhal costs double the launch platform.
 

Right_People

Junior Member
Registered Member
Surely if Russia has thousands of kh-22s they can just pull out of storage, many of the previous strikes would've been much larger in scale, around Jan/Feb when Ukraine was still quite cold and Western AA haven't fully arrived yet a mass missile strike could've crippled Ukrainian energy infrastructure beyond repair.
Russia never wanted to take out the grid, if they wanted to do so they would have attacked the 750 kV substations.

About why they dont use their old systems at once?
No idea, but they started the war using old An-2 as decoys ...
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
How are Khinzal different from DF17 or DF27? Is it more maneuverable?

If it can shoot down Khinzal, then it could shoot down Df17 too. I believed cheap low cost mass quantity is the only way to overwhelm everything U.S has.
A kinzhal is more like an air launched DF-16 or like the US air launched hypersonic weapon currently in development.

I think it pretty much doesn't maneuver. But the fact it is air launched and has extreme speed means that it will be challenging to detect in time.

There's also no debri that suggests a kinzhal was downed in the latest attack, the only thing we have is that inconclusive nose cone from before.

For comparison, almost every storm shadow interception has Russians gleefully parade around the remains. And there hasn't even been that many storm shadow attacks yet.

Since Russia is now leaning much more into it's kinzhal stocks, if there is a way to intercept them, we will almost certainly see conclusive evidence of it soon.
 

sheogorath

Major
Registered Member
Anyway intercepting all of them is a bit of fantasy like the 6 Kinzhal. Need to boost moral each side and also selling popcorns for the show.
Russia does have more working AD systems capable of intercepting things like Storm Shadow than Ukraine does for intercepting Kinzhals though.

Looks like Patriot did its job and survived being attacked. Also Patriots always fire two missiles per target just incase same with USN firing 2 SM2/SM6 per target.

Guess that's why Kiev's Zoo got hit by two missiles, working as intended.
 

Right_People

Junior Member
Registered Member
How are Khinzal different from DF17 or DF27? Is it more maneuverable?

If it can shoot down Khinzal, then it could shoot down Df17 too. I believed cheap low cost mass quantity is the only way to overwhelm everything U.S has.
Probably the best idea is use everything at the same time. A mix of low and high tech, high and low speed, high and low altitude...

The feeling I got from yesterday is that the Russians knew where the launcher was, as they are close to a city or even inside it, this would not be difficult for observers on the ground/friendly civilians/reconnaissance means to identify.
They launched a lot of decoys and probably real missiles that were simply intercepted.
It doesn't really have to be 30, as it is normal to launch 2 per target to be shot down.
In the end the battery has no missiles in it, and you finish it off.
There are several videos of hits, the one that seems to hit the Patriots or the area near them as you prefer, doesn't seem to be a Khinzal, because you can clearly see how a Gepard tries to shoot it down, so I guess it would be something slower.
 

Right_People

Junior Member
Registered Member
No. Iron Dome and Patriots have different functions.
I didn't say anything about them having or not different functions.
I said that one of the main factors that was taken into account in the development of their system was price, because they saw that the price escalation in the American systems was simply incompatible with the extensive use of those systems. More so in asymetric scenario against cheap threats/decoys
 
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