The War in the Ukraine

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supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
plawolf said:
To be honest, those tanks will probably have far more to fear about Russian artillery.

Cheap, small commercial drone spotted artillery has been almost revolutionary in this war due to how effective is has been in erasing armour on both sides that actual tank-on-tank engagements have been exceptionally rare.

That won’t change for Leo’s or Abrams. There will be plenty of propaganda shots of them when they first arrive, but they are almost certainly not going to chance things much on the battlefield.

They either operate in small numbers to minimise chances of attracting Russian artillery and air power, and thus have minimal impact; or if they try a mass armoured charge with them, the Russians will quickly detect and prioritise that push and will respond by spamming the shit out of them with artillery and grads. Any tanks that do survive the artillery will soon find themselves on the receiving end of Russian CAS from Su25s and attack helicopters. By the time T90s actually show up there will probably be nothing by wreckage left.
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The problem is that there is seemingly no coordination between Russian units at scale.
You aren't seeing something like the coordination between army and aviation units as you describe.

If the logistics were up to supporting forces at forward operations areas, they likely would not need to fall back as they have the past few months.

Mix in AT Infantry and Sappers doing AT Mining to your scenario and there really should not be an issue to deal with tanks at all, but I’m not sure it is within the capabilities to pull it off.
 
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colorwolf99

New Member
Registered Member
sheogorath said:
Patriot Park will be interesting, yes.


DU isn't export banned, though. Poland's M1A1 will keep their DU arrays.
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I'm not so sure about that. While Poland did receive DU ammunition; according to that order's contract requirements Poland's tanks will be modified to have FMS compliant armor rather than the original DU armor on the Marine tanks.

polish-m1-turret-cost.jpg
 
H

HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
supersnoop said:
The problem is that there is seemingly no coordination between Russian units at scale.
You aren't seeing something like the coordination between army and aviation units as you describe.

If the logistics were up to supporting forces at forward operations areas, they likely would not need to fall back as they have the past few months.

Mix in AT Infantry and Sappers doing AT Mining to your scenario and there really should not be an issue to deal with tanks at all, but I’m not sure it is within the capabilities to pull it off.
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As far as I can tell, the logistics have been largely fixed.

The issue isn't logistics, the issue is poor coordination and really long ISR loops.
 
Phead128

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
kokole said:
Interesting analysis. According to the author, Donbass is one of the most fortified regions on the planet.
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Yes, which is why the "Cauldron" was suppose to form around Donbass in a pincer-attack with flanking maneuvers... or what was the pre-Feb. 24 speculation at least.

plawolf said:
To be honest, those tanks will probably have far more to fear about Russian artillery.
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Yes, same in World of Tanks video game.... artillery is so deadly, even worse with really good spotting.
kokole said:
Fascinating new RAND report urges Washington to get the hell out of dodge in Ukraine, as "US interests would be best served by avoiding a protracted conflict," and "costs and risks of a long war...outweigh the possible benefits"!
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Yes, this low-IQ RAND report suggests a prolonged war with Russia would divert vital resources away from containment of China:
The U.S. ability to focus on its other global priorities—particularly, competition with China—will remain constrained as long as the war is absorbing senior policymakers’ time and U.S. military resources
......
And although Russia will be more dependent on China regardless of when the war ends, Washington does have a long-term interest in ensuring that Moscow does not become completely subordinated to Beijing. A longer war that increases Russia’s dependence could provide China advantages in its competition with the United States.
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So not sure why this RAND report is worthy of sharing. It's your typical: "Don't start WW3 and let's focus on China" type drivel.
 
A

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
kokole said:
Fascinating new RAND report urges Washington to get the hell out of dodge in Ukraine, as "US interests would be best served by avoiding a protracted conflict," and "costs and risks of a long war...outweigh the possible benefits"!



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If think tanks like RAND are so one dimensional on this war you can imagine how narrow minded the politicians in Washington are.

I actually agree with it's conclusion, albeit for different reasons.

I don't know why the west chose supporting the Ukrainians to be the hill they die on, but everything should be done to ensure that they do.
 
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Botnet

Junior Member
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It seems the west is content to ignore all of Russia's red lines. MBTs, ifvs, artillery, GLSDB, possible fighter jets...the list goes on. This is, at the very least, a cause for great concern. Russia had better be digging massive trench lines in Zaporizhzhia. I think the war will essentially be decided by the end of this year, depending on who achieves the greatest success from the upcoming Spring/Summer offensives.
 
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