The War in the Ukraine

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Ukraine will receive Leopard tanks, because the Germans will succumb to the pressure.

But the tanks won't make a difference and we will all see their losses in combat. And then Ukraine will ask for the Abrams.

So the Abrams will eventually be featured in Ukraine. It's only a matter of time.
Yes, the low quantity of Western MBT sent will not be sufficient for a major breakthrough, likely just enough to prolong the conflict or slow down Russia's inevitable advance westward, and at best maintain a frozen conflict. Ukraine needs many hundreds of MBTs to make a real difference, but without adequate airpower and logistics supply, it's doubtful it can fully evict Russia from it's territory.
The only tank we might not see is the Leclerc, but who knows.
I read that Paris is considering LeClercs to Ukraine. But think of the logistical nightmare of maintain a hodgepodge of different MBTs, IFVs, rockets, design.... a maintenance nightmare.

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This conflict will last 2-4 years until a landlocked Ukraine settles for peace, forced on by war weary Western allies. Poland will send in forces as the fighting approaches the East.
After the strategic retreat from Kherson, I don't see Russia going after Odessa to render Ukraine land-locked country. Russia will mainly focus on the eastern half of Ukraine (east of Dnieper) from now on. Also, Western allies are just printing money to fund this proxy war, they are not sacrificing their own lives, so theoretically they can "last" almost indefinitely by borrowing and printing money, whereas Ukraine and Russia are sacrificing their lives. "War weariness" is more of a factor among Ukraine and Russia, than Western allies, who would love to prolong this proxy war as long as possible.
 

Jingle Bells

Junior Member
Registered Member
I guess now we know why the US allocated money to train Ukrainian pilots on US fighters and not long ago decided to send JDAMS.

This is the loadout that will be critical for Ukraine.
View attachment 105647

Mig-29 and SU-27's with HARMS have been somewhat successful but a SEAD Viper is going to be a real hunter killer of Russian SAMs.

Maybe they'll give them the latest EW pod.
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Typical Twitter-Shock-and-Awe tactic. I'd wait for these to actually go into battle in reality, before having a triumphalist hard-on.
 

baykalov

Senior Member
Registered Member
Corruption in Ukraine, two examples:

Detectives of the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine (NABU) detained Deputy Minister of Infrastructure, Communities and Territories of the country Vasyl Lozinsky while receiving a bribe of $ 400,000, the publication Ukrainska Pravda reports, citing its own sources. The Ministry of Infrastructure of Ukraine confirmed the detention of Deputy Minister Lozinsky who is suspected of embezzlement of budget funds.




During the war,the Ministry of Defense buys food for the AFU at prices several times higher than market prices. The purchase prices turned out to be overstated by 2-3 times in comparison with market prices. So, the Ministry of Defense contracted eggs for 17 UAH apiece, while the retail price in Kiev stores is now about 7 UAH apiece. Potatoes were ordered at 22 UAH per kilogram, while the retail price in the store is 8-9 UAH.




A Ukrainian gets beat up in Poland. Polish paramedic: "What is it? Swastika?"

 

baykalov

Senior Member
Registered Member
Now I came across this tweet and was shocked. Population pyramid of Ukraine for 2023 according to the UN forecast. Where are the 20-30 year olds!? How does Ukraine plan to win this war!





Nearly 37 million, presumably this figure includes the population in the four territories under Russian control.

Skärmbild 2023-01-22 222931.jpg
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SolarWarden

Junior Member
Registered Member
Unleash zee Leopards der Germans will not get in the way.

I know many in here will laugh and say this won't give Ukraine an advantage but they are wrong just like they were wrong about HiMARS would not make a difference. It's their way of coping because the naysayers will completely ignore purposely the capability that it will give Ukraine that Russia is lacking also... Night fighting. Superior night optics in Leos, Bradleys, Marders and CV-90s is a game changer in the way Ukraine will fight the ground war.

Germany resistance to helping Ukraine got them outplayed by US

They could have taken the bull by the horns and made deals with nations the operate Leos but now it looks like Europe will be an Abrams territory just like the F-35. Btw next month the conversation will be about sending Ukraine fighters. Just watch.
 

sheogorath

Major
Registered Member
I found this bit interesting about the logistics of the Abrams during desert storm

Abrams crews indicated that its range was limited because it frequently had to stop to (1) refuel to compensate for high fuel consumption and faulty fuel pumps and (2) clean air filters due to extremely sandy conditions. Bradley and Abrams crews reported problems obtaining repair parts, and many had exhausted their limited supply of some parts by the end of the 100-hour ground war. Because of these problems, according to some Army logistics personnel, sustainability could have become a major problem had the war lasted longer.
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Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
Not saying that isn't possible, too. But IMO, US fears catastrophical Ukrainean sucess, say offensive that cuts off Russian forces in Crimea or captures Donetsk etc. That might force Putin to use nuclear weapons to stop that from happening, and that is something the US want's to avoid.
Based on what? The leopard tanks? Lol are you for real? This latest ask is just about the latest claims that this weapons will bring about the defeat of Russia, another wonder weapon, a game changer.

If 14 tanks from each countries of UK, US, and Germany will make that happen insults the intelligence of people.
Unleash zee Leopards der Germans will not get in the way.

I know many in here will laugh and say this won't give Ukraine an advantage but they are wrong just like they were wrong about HiMARS would not make a difference. It's their way of coping because the naysayers will completely ignore purposely the capability that it will give Ukraine that Russia is lacking also... Night fighting. Superior night optics in Leos, Bradleys, Marders and CV-90s is a game changer in the way Ukraine will fight the ground war.

Germany resistance to helping Ukraine got them outplayed by US

They could have taken the bull by the horns and made deals with nations the operate Leos but now it looks like Europe will be an Abrams territory just like the F-35. Btw next month the conversation will be about sending Ukraine fighters. Just watch.
Are you or have served in the Armed forces? If so, have you hit your head on the ground so hard that you seem to have lost any sense of reality and hell bent on sloganeering on how this latest wonder weapon would do X, Y, Z. It is an absurdity considering that the number of tanks plus the training it takes to adequately operate those super duper tanks require a considerable AMOUNT OF TIME both the NUMBER OF TANKS ALONG WITH THE QUALITY AND QUANTITY OF TIME.

How many Leopard tanks are we talking about here buddy 300? 400? Unless the amount of tanks provided to the Ukrainian forces are in those numbers then I'll be more than happy to sing kumbaya with you, but it just doesn't appear to me that Ukraine is going to receive anywhere close to that amount.

Let's respect the enemy here which is Russia (since you're Pro-Ukraine) with regards to their ability to adapt to their reality not to mention that they are in possession of a far more numerous MBT that will and can turn the tide against Ukraine provided that the Russian forces have the right force mix and coordination, support of logistics, from the strategic to the tactical level.

I'll gladly admit if my limited understanding of war and tactics is proven to be bunk if somehow Ukraine manage to expel the Russian invaders with the very limited amount of tanks they'll potentially receive from Germany (indirectly provided by Poland).
 
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