The War in the Ukraine

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Dunno why you guys underestimate the Patriot system. It has been extensively tested in Saudi Arabia against all sorts of nice toys that Iran gave to Yemen.

That Saudi Arabia is happily using it and actually requests more and more missiles from the US to stock up, says to me that for what it does, it does it well

I am sure Russia won't be as dismissive of its arrival to Ukraine as some people are
I think people are only debunking the exaggerated performance of Patriot instead of underestimating what it really can do.

SA has no choice other than Patriot. It could not bare the consequence of buying from Russia or China.

Turkey's choice of S-300 instead of Patriot speaks the opposite. The Turks even went so far willing to loose F-35. It would be crazy and stupid to give up a better SAM and F-35 just for the sake of pissing off US.
 

typexx

Junior Member
Registered Member
That Saudi Arabia is happily using it and actually requests more and more missiles from the US to stock up, says to me that for what it does, it does it well
the saudi patriot wasn't that effective in 2018 some missiles exploded mid air and one did a u turn when trying to intercept a yemeni missile while they claimed to have intercepted it and in 2019 the six battalions of Patriot failed to protect its oil facilities from attacks by shahed drones and cruise missiles
Dunno why you guys underestimate the Patriot system. It has been extensively tested in Saudi Arabia against all sorts of nice toys that Iran gave to Yemen.
yemenis at most have scud missiles modified S-75 anti air missiles used in ground attack and some iranian drones like shahed
 

generalmeng

New Member
Registered Member
I think people are only debunking the exaggerated performance of Patriot instead of underestimating what it really can do.

SA has no choice other than Patriot. It could not bare the consequence of buying from Russia or China.

Turkey's choice of S-300 instead of Patriot speaks the opposite. The Turks even went so far willing to loose F-35. It would be crazy and stupid to give up a better SAM and F-35 just for the sake of pissing off US.

While F-35 is an amazing aircraft, in pure military capability. There is a large geopolitical and economic decision to motivate Turkey away from F-35.

Remember F-35 alone is not as powerful as F-35 with AEW&C, not to mention, a whole ecosystem of American weapons, ground-based radars, electronic warfare jets... etc. The MAR for AMRAM is like 12 nautical miles? While the stated max range is like 120 nautical miles? I think a common tactic is to turn off radar, use AEW&C to guide F-35, get in range, turn on radar, lock fire and run at 12nm.

To my point, if Turkey is to proceed with F-35, they will be forced to buy into the NATO ecosystem, and the f-35 itself is like 300 million a jet, plus the support network, it will be very expensive for Turkey, and Turkey will be tie to the West economy. So far, the west economy only have been contributing to hyper inflation in turkey. If turkey is sanction, becasue the west like to keep a tight leash on turkey (remember turkey have dispute with greece in cypus, and any time EU can sanction turkey, then no more amram).

Turkey wanted to diversify their investment, and have a better economic connections and geopolitical connections to Russia and China. the west isn't going to help turkey's economy. So buying the west system may eventually leave their F-35 into dead paper weight.

Lastly, turkey is working on their own 6th gen jets, so that tells you, they may want to skip 5th gen entirely. This is also a good decision, because it promote their own national industry, and save money in the long run if they skip 5th gen.
 

LawLeadsToPeace

Senior Member
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Registered Member
Interesting discussion, but it is getting off topic. Let's stick to the topic on hand. Unless Turkey's acquisition of the F35 and the F35's specs act as evidence for a claim that is relevant to the topic of this thread, they have nothing to do with the Ukraine war. Any more posts about them or anything unrelated to the conflict will be deleted.
 

Zichan

Junior Member
Registered Member
Yes. And I will space drop in a Starship on Zelensky's lawn with my trusty H&K G11 rifle.

No such system was ever manufactured and put into service.
And if Israel exports their air defense technology to Ukraine, then Syria will get the Iskander, and other things like that. Good luck.
Isn’t the Stunner missile manufactured in the US? Rafael had to partner with Raytheon to design and produce these missiles.

From Raytheon:
“Declared fully operational in 2017, David’s Sling was co-developed by Raytheon Technologies and Israel’s Rafael Advanced Defense Systems. In addition to partnering on the system’s Stunner interceptor, Raytheon Technologies produces the system’s missile firing units. Teams in nearly 30 states across the U.S. produce the missile and its firing unit.”

The US provided $2bn dollars to support the development of David’s Sling. I think Raytheon holds a license to manufacture these missiles under its own brand name, so Israel need not be implicated should Ukraine be furnished with them.
 
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sheogorath

Major
Registered Member
Dunno why you guys underestimate the Patriot system. It has been extensively tested in Saudi Arabia against all sorts of nice toys that Iran gave to Yemen.
Is not about underestimating the Patriot but more about pointing out that it isn't really that much of an improvement in capabilities over the existing S-300 and Buks. It's real advantage will be that they can actually source the missiles, which they can't with the S-300 and Buks

Also, the Patriot's debut in the Gulf War was notoriously bad and its performance in Saudi Arabia and Israel, while better than at the begining, it still isn't nothing to write home about, which is why Israel figured it was better to develop their own variant than to keep relying on vanilla Patriots.
 

solarz

Brigadier
It's telling the Ukrainian side keeps pumping up wunderwaffe stories. Does anyone really believe a single Patriot battery is going to make any difference?

Russia is pumping out T-90s by the score, and the West is patting their own backs on sending equipment in the single digits.
 
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