Star Wars & Sc-Fi Talk

Miragedriver

Brigadier
First of all, the Stormtroopers' reputation for being bad shots is a bit exaggerated. They do quite well against the Rebels at the beginning of A New Hope , and later Ben Kenobi, a jedi Master and respected general, speaks highy of Imperial marksmanship against the Sandpeople tank, and in the Hoth battle in The Empire Strikes Back. For example, they can hit rebel soldiers from at least ten meters away simply by hip-firing. It's mainly in the presence of Plot Armor-wearing main characters that their aim starts to degrade. And in A New Hope, the Stormtroopers were under orders from Tarkin to let Luke and his pals escape so that they could be tracked to the Rebel base — so the troopers (or at least the most fanatical ones) were trying to miss. And in the one scene where the troopers were trying to take prisoners, they were able to hit Princess Leia with a stun gun on their very first shot. However, that still does leave some unexplained scenes where the Stormtroopers were far worse shots than the protagonists.

And the battle droids? The canon explanation for their shoddy aim is that they really are that bad. The Trade Federation's battle strategy emphasized quantity over quality, seeking to overwhelm the opponent with huge numbers of disposable troops. The standard B1 Battle Droids were so disposable that, after Episode I, they were relegated to comic relief, rather than presented as a threat. Upgraded versions, like the Droidekas and Super Battle Droids, do pose a threat in later episodes, but even so, they tended to only succeed against Jedi in situations where the Inverse Ninja Law was working against the Jedi.

Now, for the really baffling part: When Stormtroopers or battle droids fire at a main character with a blaster, they tend to miss entirely. When Stormtroopers or battledroids fire at a main character who is a lightsaber-wielding Jedi, their shots are on-target or darn close—enabling the Jedi to deflect the shots (usually right back at their attacker) with said lightsaber.

if only they could have shot Jar Jar Binks and blown up the Ewoke plant
 

Miragedriver

Brigadier
Comparing Star Wars and Star Trek is like comparing apples and oranges to me. I like them both. Both have good things and bad ones too. I see one thing that Star Trek trumps over Star Wars. With the snap of a finger... the Q Continuum.

First, Star Wars vs Star Trek normally means "could the Empire kick the Federation's @#*". If it's a question of taste (ie- "do you like Star Wars more than Star Trek"), debate becomes impossible because the answer is subjective. Anyway, once we agree that we're talking about military prowess, people like to perform substitutions: instead of Federation vs Empire, suddenly it's the Borg vs the Empire, or Species 8472 vs the Empire, or the Q vs the Empire, or perhaps the race that built the Dyson Sphere vs the Empire, because all of them showed up at some time or other in Star Trek. But lest we forget, Star Trek is basically about the Federation, remember? That's the technology base. Subject changes are quiet admissions that the Empire would wipe the floor with the main characters of Star Trek, so you've got to resort to one-episode wonders (even if they're long-gone, or just as likely to turn on the Federation, or if they've been stymied by the Federation in the past, which would call their abilities into question).
 

chuck731

Banned Idiot
First, Star Wars vs Star Trek normally means "could the Empire kick the Federation's @#*". If it's a question of taste (ie- "do you like Star Wars more than Star Trek"), debate becomes impossible because the answer is subjective. Anyway, once we agree that we're talking about military prowess, people like to perform substitutions: instead of Federation vs Empire, suddenly it's the Borg vs the Empire, or Species 8472 vs the Empire, or the Q vs the Empire, or perhaps the race that built the Dyson Sphere vs the Empire, because all of them showed up at some time or other in Star Trek. But lest we forget, Star Trek is basically about the Federation, remember? That's the technology base. Subject changes are quiet admissions that the Empire would wipe the floor with the main characters of Star Trek, so you've got to resort to one-episode wonders (even if they're long-gone, or just as likely to turn on the Federation, or if they've been stymied by the Federation in the past, which would call their abilities into question).

He who laughs last laughs best.

The federation is still going strong in the 29th century.

Not a peep has been heard from the empire since "a long long time ago".

End of discussion.
 

kyanges

Junior Member
First, Star Wars vs Star Trek normally means "could the Empire kick the Federation's @#*". If it's a question of taste (ie- "do you like Star Wars more than Star Trek"), debate becomes impossible because the answer is subjective. Anyway, once we agree that we're talking about military prowess, people like to perform substitutions: instead of Federation vs Empire, suddenly it's the Borg vs the Empire, or Species 8472 vs the Empire, or the Q vs the Empire, or perhaps the race that built the Dyson Sphere vs the Empire, because all of them showed up at some time or other in Star Trek. But lest we forget, Star Trek is basically about the Federation, remember? That's the technology base. Subject changes are quiet admissions that the Empire would wipe the floor with the main characters of Star Trek, so you've got to resort to one-episode wonders (even if they're long-gone, or just as likely to turn on the Federation, or if they've been stymied by the Federation in the past, which would call their abilities into question).


Even if we're limiting the fight to just the Federation, I think they'd still stand a pretty good chance. This is an organization that not only polices the timeline in later centuries, but makes planets with torpedo sized devices in previous ones.
 
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chuck731

Banned Idiot
Even if we're limiting the fight to just the Federation, they'd still stand a pretty good chance. We're talking about an organization that not only polices the timeline in later centuries, but makes planets with torpedo sized devices in previous ones.

I agree. In all aspects Federation technology appear superior to the empire, and federation also gives the impression of collective dynamism and much more rapid progress in science and technology.

The only advantage seemingly enjoyed by the empire is scale. The empire and the republic before it both gives the impression of being stagnant, and have made not much progress in science, technology and soceity in the time spanned by "800 generations" of Jedi, appearently while absorbed in politics and statecraft.

If the federation endures for 800 generation (~200 centuries) while facing only the sort of lame aliens seen in Star Wars it would probably have extended its influence to the whole universe, plus several other dimensions as well as points of existence in the far future and far back in the past.
 
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vesicles

Colonel
One thing I never understood is why the storm troopers wear what they wear. From what I can see it doesn't offer any tactical advantage at all. All the suit does is it makes them clumsy, impedes movement of any kind and restrict vision. Maybe that's why they are such bad shots. How can you possibly aim with that giant helmet on. they offer no protection from blasters, no sensors of any kind, no protection against NBC or enviromental hazards, not an exoskeleton nothing LOL.

I don't know why people keep saying storm troopers are bad shots. In Episode IV, Obi-Wan Kenobi specifically said that storm troopers are excellent and disciplined shooters. They can't seem to hit any good guys because, well, Lucas didn't want to kill off Leia, Luke or Han just yet... And do we expect them to???
 

kyanges

Junior Member
I don't know why people keep saying storm troopers are bad shots. In Episode IV, Obi-Wan Kenobi specifically said that storm troopers are excellent and disciplined shooters. They can't seem to hit any good guys because, well, Lucas didn't want to kill off Leia, Luke or Han just yet... And do we expect them to???

I don't know what others expect. I would prefer if the protagonist won through superior skill, not because the plot demanded the enemy miss all the time.
 

Miragedriver

Brigadier
He who laughs last laughs best.

The federation is still going strong in the 29th century.

Not a peep has been heard from the empire since "a long long time ago".

End of discussion.

In a galaxy far far away this is fortunate for Star Trek. Who knows how Stong the Empire is in the 29th century

Ha! Last word
 
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