Star Wars & Sc-Fi Talk

chuck731

Banned Idiot
I don't know why people keep saying storm troopers are bad shots. In Episode IV, Obi-Wan Kenobi specifically said that storm troopers are excellent and disciplined shooters. They can't seem to hit any good guys because, well, Lucas didn't want to kill off Leia, Luke or Han just yet... And do we expect them to???


I agree, Storm troopers are great shots, except when they have a need to actually hit what they are shooting at.

BTW, the federation is the good guy, so the Storm troopers can be counted on to miss as well, not that turbo laser would have been noticed if they actually hit

:D
 

Miragedriver

Brigadier
I agree, Storm troopers are great shots, except when they have a need to actually hit what they are shooting at.



:D

Star Wars laser weaponry is actually particle beam weaponry and not turbo lasers. They got stuck with a misnomer name to help sell it to a non-sci-fi fan base that is all.

Nothing else to see there, move along
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
I don't know why people keep saying storm troopers are bad shots. In Episode IV, Obi-Wan Kenobi specifically said that storm troopers are excellent and disciplined shooters. They can't seem to hit any good guys because, well, Lucas didn't want to kill off Leia, Luke or Han just yet... And do we expect them to???

hmm because they are LOL look I understand the plotholes and script and all but I 'calls em as I see em'... and it's certainly not specific to the Star Wars series.

Have you ever seen the A-Team? now if there ever was a group of 'highly trained, disciplined ex-special forces' soldiers who couldn't shoot the broad side of a Star Destroyer they would be it. Amazingly however if they need to take out a street lamp, shoots a gun off someone's hand or take out a car tire from 1000 yrs downrange they could but God forbid they have to take out a bad guy from 10 yards and unload 1000 rounds into him and miss every single one.:eek: but that's why I love the 80's! It was the age of innocence! TV shows were pretty wholesome!
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
First, Star Wars vs Star Trek normally means "could the Empire kick the Federation's @#*". If it's a question of taste (ie- "do you like Star Wars more than Star Trek"), debate becomes impossible because the answer is subjective. Anyway, once we agree that we're talking about military prowess, people like to perform substitutions: instead of Federation vs Empire, suddenly it's the Borg vs the Empire, or Species 8472 vs the Empire, or the Q vs the Empire, or perhaps the race that built the Dyson Sphere vs the Empire, because all of them showed up at some time or other in Star Trek. But lest we forget, Star Trek is basically about the Federation, remember? That's the technology base. Subject changes are quiet admissions that the Empire would wipe the floor with the main characters of Star Trek, so you've got to resort to one-episode wonders (even if they're long-gone, or just as likely to turn on the Federation, or if they've been stymied by the Federation in the past, which would call their abilities into question).

Yes, and that's why (remember, no favoritism from me) if you think about it, the Q Continuum lords over the Force. The only equals the Q Continuum have are themselves.
 

kyanges

Junior Member
Yes, and that's why (remember, no favoritism from me) if you think about it, the Q Continuum lords over the Force. The only equals the Q Continuum have are themselves.

And that's why I wonder why Q seemed afraid of Guinan at first.
 
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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
In a galaxy far far away this is fortunate for Star Trek. Who knows how Stong the Empire is in the 29th century

Ha! Last word

the empire is gone. Remember the return of the Jedi. The great and mighty empire was crushed by teddy bears with attitude. As to the accuracy every thing is graded on a curve and marksman are sorely lacking in the star wars universe. I guess everyone is supposed to use the force. In Trek you hit what you aim for.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
And that's why I wonder why Q seemed afraid of Guinan at first.

I forgot all about that. That's the problem with long running series because they're bound to be questions that always arise due to lack of continuity. If you remember in the Star Trek Generations movie I believe she was susceptible to the power of the Nexus. Q being afraid of Guinan... was that just a character tease to establish Guinan's power in an episode? She along with Soran who's supposedly come from the same species seem to be vulnerable to the Nexus. Something the Q would probably yawn over.
 
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Miragedriver

Brigadier
the empire is gone. Remember the return of the Jedi. The great and mighty empire was crushed by teddy bears with attitude. As to the accuracy every thing is graded on a curve and marksman are sorely lacking in the star wars universe. I guess everyone is supposed to use the force. In Trek you hit what you aim for.

I sould have nuked Endor from orbit when I had the chance................

Storm Troopers should take off that ridiculous helmet!

By the why, I liked the Klingon bikers. Talk about the ultimate thug.
 

Miragedriver

Brigadier
By the why I hope that all of you are taking this as good old fashion fun……Personally I like both, but I enjoy SW a little more.

Well with that said let us have a little more fun……………………….

Let us simply grab figures from the official publications, shall we. Of all the voluminous Star Wars and Star Trek publications out there, only one for each series gives meaningful specifications in real-world units: Star Wars Episode II Incredible Cross-Sections (SW2ICS) and the Star Trek Next Generation Technical Manual (TNG TM).

Star Wars Cruiser vs Enterprise ”D

Star Wars-01:
Light guns: 300 million GW (6 megatons per shot, 24 guns, assume 1 shot every 2 seconds for time-averaged power output rather than peak output).
Star Trek-01:
Main phasers: 3.6 GW (5.1 MW per emitter, 200 emitters in the main phaser array, 2 full-sized saucer arrays and 3 smaller roughly half-size arrays on the stardrive section, p.123). Note that phasers appear to have a chain-reaction effect so their raw power output may be deceptively low.

Star Wars-02:
Main guns: 64000 GW (2 kilotons per shot, 480 rpm firing rate onscreen in AOTC for time-averaged power output rather than peak output)
Star Trek-02:
Main phasers: 3.6 GW . See above.

Star Wars-03:
Asteroid destruction: seismic charges destroy asteroids in a radius of 5-10 km in AOTC, 190 megatons.
Star Trek-03:
Asteroid destruction: according to Riker, it would take the entire photon torpedo payload to destroy a single 5km wide hollow asteroid in "Pegasus". In other words, it would take the entire payload of the Enterprise-D (a capital warship with a crew of a thousand) to equal just one of Jango Fett's seismic charges (a bounty hunter's weapon).Photon torpedoes: 64 megatons max theoretical (based on 1.5 kg antimatter payload, p.129)

Star Wars-04:
Reactor power: has power output of 7 billion GW max.
Star Trek-04:
Reactor power: ~4 billion GW at max warp 9.6

Star Wars-05:
Combat range: in ROTJ, combat initially occurs at ranges of a few thousands kilometres, eventually closing to a few hundred kilometres ("point blank" according to Lando) until Rebel ships are within a few dozen kilometres of the Executor.
Star Trek-05:
Combat range: fleet actions in DS9 uniformly feature engagements at ranges of 5 km or less, just as they do in TNG's Klingon wars or Borg engagements. In "The Die is Cast", Sisko actually orders the Defiant to approach to 500 metres (while taking fire) before shooting at a Jem'Hadar attack ship, presumably due to some disadvantage incurred at longer range. The only long-ranged incidents involve stationary or near-stationary targets. Not very good BVR systems!

Star Wars-06:
Speed: travel from galactic core systems to outer rim systems ("halfway across the galaxy" as Amidala put it) is shown repeatedly in ANH, TPM, and AOTC. It is invariably same-day traffic, typically a few hours.
Star Trek-06:
Speed: Voyager took 7 years to crawl across part of one quadrant of the galaxy, even with repeated assists from alien races, stolen technology, and even the occasional shove from a godlike being. Not hours ... years.

Star Wars-07:
Sublight acceleration: 3500G.
Star Trek-07:
Sublight acceleration: 1000G (design goal, p.75)

Star Wars-08:
Operational range: 250,000 light-years (before refueling).
Star Trek-08:
Operational range: 2750 light-years (7 years at warp 6 before refueling, p.3)

Star Wars-09:
Shield heat dissipation: 70 trillion GW peak
Star Trek-09:
Shield heat dissipation: 3311 GW peak (473 GW per generator x 7 generators, p.138)

Star Wars-10:
Reactor power: 200 trillion GW max
Star Trek-10:
Reactor power: ~4 billion GW at max warp 9.6 (scaled from the warp power chart on p.55 which uses units of joules for power; we assume this is a simple mistake). From the chart, their fuel supply for 7 years of warp 6 cruising would be roughly 2E23 J (enough to run an Acclamator's reactor at full power for just 1 second).

Star Wars-11:
Max hyperspace speed: not stated (however, the ability to travel "halfway across the galaxy" in a matter of hours as demonstrated in ANH, TPM, and AOTC requires speeds in the range of 10 million to 100 million times c).
Star Trek-11:
Max warp speed: ~2000c (warp 9.6), sustainable 12 hours for a single sprint of roughly 3 light-years. This appears to have increased to roughly 3000c for newer ships such as the Intrepid-class.

Conclusions:
In a straight-up fight, the Empire squashes the Federation like a bug. Even with its numerical advantage removed, the Empire would still squash the Federation like a bug. Accept it.

Additionally I can’t believe I work this much time on this particular post………………..May the Force be with you.

Face it, we are nerds to the power of ‘n’. Let us save our energy and focus and the real enemy.
Serenity and Babylon 5 fans
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Give me a break, it's not about the weapons it's about how they are used. The empire is a 2D looser. 90% of it's territory was inherited. The greatest Threat rebellion and Teddy bears fighting Asymmetric war. The Federation has to deal with real politics not "This is ah outrageous." Take a look at the big powers for the Starwars universe. The Empire and the Alliance, The Alliance is called a Rebelion but it brings equal firepower to the Imperial fleet. out side of that you got the Huts. Talk about Black and White.
Now Trek, You have the Federation Who does not always play the good guy, The Romulans the Klingons two star Empires who have there own national wants and needs, the Cardassian Union, The Tholians, The Gorn, the Orion Syndicate, the Ferengi the Dominion, the Borg. each has there own politics conflicts and Ideals. with strong players.
In Star wars You go to the Darkside. In trek you do what is best for your people and sometimes it makes you a monster.
I am sorry Miragedriver Star wars is all wiz bang pow blasters there is no drama. Star trek may come off as preachy but it has more realism not with the tech but with the drama. Star wars is a kids Show, Star trek is a adult drama.
 
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