Siege of Changchun

vesicles said:

But did they get anywhere? They were stuck in east China and could not move an inch into Sichua.

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so the Japanese troops never entered anywhere into Sichuan till WW2 end?

Generalissimo Chiang took the Japanese threat after No.1 very seriously. Chungking evacuation had started. General Wedemyer suggested that Chiang to leave with him for Kunming. Chiang declared that he rather die and perish with Chungking. Wedemyer was touched by those words and the American decided to stay with the Chinese leader in Chungking.

I don't have my copy of "When Tigers Fight" but as far as I understand, both CCP and KMT forces fared atrociously during the war. The Japanese were able to honestly declare the CCP contained up north, after the failure of the Hundred Regiments campaign. The Chinese typically had 1-10 kill-loss ratios, and it was really the Americans dragging out the IJA that did the latter in.

Most IJA forces committed to fighting the Chinese were second-line troops, more conscripts than anything else, and the best trained and best-equipped forces were going for the Americans.

One thing to remember, Time is not a reliable source and is regularly considered among the worst of American news publications. Henry Luce had a fetish for Jiang Jieshi as a son of missionaries, and Time can be counted on to pump up the KMT at the CCP's expense in almost all conditions.

Inst said:

I don't have my copy of "When Tigers Fight" but as far as I understand, both CCP and KMT forces fared atrociously during the war. The Japanese were able to honestly declare the CCP contained up north, after the failure of the Hundred Regiments campaign. The Chinese typically had 1-10 kill-loss ratios, and it was really the Americans dragging out the IJA that did the latter in.

Most IJA forces committed to fighting the Chinese were second-line troops, more conscripts than anything else, and the best trained and best-equipped forces were going for the Americans.

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Are you serious? The Japanese Kwantung Army in China was their elite of the elite. Go ahead and find all the battle US fought directly with Japanese on the islands, and add that number together, see how does that stack up to the Japan's army left in China.

Inst said:

I don't have my copy of "When Tigers Fight" but as far as I understand, both CCP and KMT forces fared atrociously during the war. The Japanese were able to honestly declare the CCP contained up north, after the failure of the Hundred Regiments campaign. The Chinese typically had 1-10 kill-loss ratios, and it was really the Americans dragging out the IJA that did the latter in.

Most IJA forces committed to fighting the Chinese were second-line troops, more conscripts than anything else, and the best trained and best-equipped forces were going for the Americans.

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That's a nice piece of revisionism there.

When I was in school I learned that when US fought the Japanese on the islands, there was very little of them surrendered, instead they either killed themselves or used suicide charges until they all died. Did they also acted the same way in China?

But do they have enough force to take back Manchuria? Japan has controlled that place for almost 2 decades, I would guess they already have a pretty stronghold there.

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The Soviets were able to do it easily with just a fraction of their available forces and resources in less than two months. The question should be, would the KMT decide to do it or would they decide to go for CCP first.

FriedRiceNSpice said:

The Soviets were able to do it easily with just a fraction of their available forces and resources in less than two months. The question should be, would the KMT decide to do it or would they decide to go for CCP first.

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the US would forbid the Nationalist to attack the Communist first. i think General Chiang will agree to that reluctantly. he was held to ransom by the American aid.

FriedRiceNSpice said:

The Soviets were able to do it easily with just a fraction of their available forces and resources in less than two months. The question should be, would the KMT decide to do it or would they decide to go for CCP first.

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Soviet had strategic surprise and A LOT of hard trained veterans from fighting Germany, and A LOT of surplus hardware.

Chinese force will be lacking all 3 of this, if they take back Manchuria, it will not be a easy fight, I mean eventually they can do it, because Japanese army on China is cut off from rest of the world, so that means in a battle of attrition which China will win in the end, but I think there will be hard loss on both side.

vesicles said:

Soon after Japan surrendered, the CCP was not in a good position. They had a lot people, but most were untrained, inexperienced and mostly unarmed. That's why they put the access to Manchuria on top of their list of things to do. Even at the end of 1947, Lin Biao was losing battle after battle and was about to disband his troops and hide in the forest. So based on their overall situation, Mao wanted sympathy from the international community and suggested democracy.

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Vesicles, Lin Biao was only one of the commanders of the PLA. In the early stages of the Civil War, the CCP and the KMT were engaged in a seesaw of battles. Both sides won some and lost some.

全面内战爆发

1947年3月7日，政府代表张治中在南京送董必武等中共驻京人员乘坐美飞机撤回延安
1946年6月26日停战有效期刚过，國軍在劉峙、程潛的統率下，以20萬優勢兵力攻打在湖北、河南边界宣化店被包围的李先念部6萬中原解放军，李先念率部提前突围。大陆一般认为，解放战争从这时开始爆发。[22]。
7月，国共就苏北政权的谈判陷入僵局，此时国军为保卫南京侧翼安全，向苏中和苏北的新四军驻地发动进攻[23]。粟裕发起苏中战役，与国军激战从7月开始到12月底结束，连打七仗，粟裕部在运动战中歼灭了国军第69师，此次战役，共产党方面称为“苏中七战七捷”；而国军则占领了苏北全部城镇，把中共军队压过了陇海线。
在山西，解放军在7月下旬发起攻势。7月20日，解放軍为攻占大同，在应县与国军激战，始终未能攻克。8月，解放軍围攻大同。傅作义部全力增援大同守军，9月，傅作义第35军进攻集宁以解大同之围，此时国共在集宁处于胶着状态，大同又迟迟未能被中共攻克，故解放軍主动撤退。10月初，应马歇尔要求，国民政府下达第三次停战令，但停战令期限刚过，10月11日国军36集团军乘中共主力在大同之际，奇袭夺取了中共华北区中心城市张家口。正在斡旋国共冲突的的民主人士梁漱溟看到国军攻占张家口的报纸后称“一觉醒来，和平已经死去。”[24]
在山东，8月10日，刘邓三个纵队突袭陇海线，占领砀山和兰封之间百余公里铁路，随后国军调集大军反攻。9月初，解放军撤退的同时在定陶全歼国军整编3师，但是国军整体呈攻势的局势没有改变。在东线鲁西南地区，国军进展较为顺利，在晋南地区，胡宗南部队受阻，整1师第1旅被陈赓部围歼。10月下旬，国军占领25座县城，完成华北南线作战，中共晋冀鲁豫部队被压制在黄河以北。解放军的撤退让国民党误以为胜利在望。然而解放军人数实际上未减少，很快展开了反攻。

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So I very much disagree with your assessment that the Communists were inexperienced and untrained. It is true that they were poorly equipped compared to the Nationalists. Jiang had access to vast amounts American military aid, while the Communists could only get their hands on what the Japanese left behind. However, the fact that they were able to hold their own against the Nationalists shows that they were all but "inexperienced and untrained".

This actually ties in to the Communists' contributions in the war against Japan. Remember that the Nationalists had access to American hardware by the end of the war against Japan. 1.2 million untrained peasants would have been only so much cannon fodder against WW2 weaponry. Therefore, it is clear that the communist troops were battle hardened and experienced veterans. How they gained that experience? There's only one logical answer to that.

Oh, and here's a page from a Taiwanese school book: