Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) and Global South strategic cooperation

tphuang said:

This visit is a big deal.

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let's hope this is a strategic long last friendship

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The Brazil-China friendship has already been strategic and long lasting. Ever since Lula made his visionary pilgrimage 20 years ago to meet Hu Jintao and open the doors of Latin America to China, China and Brazil have been friends. Through Brazil, China grew strong ties with CELAC. With influence in Brazilian farmers' lobby, China could protect its interests from Bolsonaro.

That is why when they met, Xi called Lula his "good old friend".

Lula is currently the driving architect of Latin American-China relations in the 21st century. AMLO and Nicolás Maduro can write letters and make powerful speeches, but Lula speaks softly while taking real action. Lula is definitely not like the politicians of today, he comes from an older time. If you think about how bad his domestic situation is, it is a miracle Lula is able to go abroad or accomplish anything at all. But right now he is signing agreements in China while simultaneously directing an investigation of insurrectionist military elements and Bolsonaro back at home. Just as his last trip was to turn trade with China from nothing to becoming Brazil's biggest customer, his trip now is to turn China into Brazil's biggest investor. In his words: the "re-industrialization of Brazil".

Lula has his own distinct vision of where China, Brazil, and Global South can intertwine from a Latin American perspective. Some of it may be naïve thinking. Some of it may be good ideas but 20 years too early. But his vision signals the slow emergence of a Latin American "civilizational state" or identity. It is important to mankind's future that China is involved.

After the foul EU experience, I wouldn't be surprised if Lula just moves on to the much-awaited China-Mercosur agreement. Signing a trade agreement with bloc population 780 million will be a hefty economic coup for China.

Here is Lula's with China:

1. Memorandum of Understanding on the Trade Facilitation Working Group
2. Complementary Protocol on the Joint Development of CBERS-6 to the 'Framework Agreement on Cooperation in Peaceful Applications of Science and Technology from Outer Space'
3. Memorandum of understanding on cooperation in research and innovation
4. Memorandum of understanding on cooperation in information and communication technologies
5. Memorandum of understanding for the promotion of investment and industrial cooperation
6. Memorandum of Understanding on Strengthening Cooperation in Investments in the Digital Economy
7. Memorandum of Understanding between the Ministry of Finance of Brazil and the Ministry of Finance of China
8. Memorandum of Understanding on Cooperation in Information and Communications
9. Television co-production agreement
10. Memorandum of Understanding between the China Media Group and the Brazilian Institutional Relations Secretariat
11. Cooperation agreement between Xinhua news agency and EBC (Empresa Brasil de Comunicação)
12. Memorandum of understanding on cooperation for social and rural development and combating hunger and poverty
13. 2023-2032 space cooperation plan between the National Space Administration of China and the Brazilian space agency
14. Cooperation work plan on electronic certification for products of animal origin
15. Protocol on sanitary and quarantine requirements for processed terrestrial animal protein to be exported from Brazil to China

IMO a strong India is in China's interest because eventually India will want to look after its own interests, which means not being a slave of the West. I see it aspiring to become an independent power as opposed to a Japan-style vassal. India poses no threat to China, only the West has decided it wants to threaten China. Remember how China and the USSR actually went to war over the border conflict in the 1960s, but by 1989 Gorbachev was in Beijing. Had the Soviets not committed seppuku at the same time theyd be in a great strategic position now. The more independent powers are out there challenging Western hegemony, whether it be India, Russia, Brazil, Saudi, Iran, SEA, Africa, you name it.... the better for China long term. Imo this is one of the main points of belt & road. They are building a new world.

Good article here. Brazil really wants to reindustrialize. So that would go beyond satellite partnership and BYD. I think Huawei will need to setup a factory there. Huawei in general needs to focus more on the global south. It spent enough time showering EU politicians with gifts and that didn't go anywhere. It needs to focus on countries like Brazil, Mexico and Saudi Arabia.

The other good point there is

Lula’s trip to China marks a significant contrast with the “low-key visit to Washington” and provides leverage against Europe, said Oliver Stuenkel, a political scientist from the Getulio Vargas Foundation university and think tank.

“This approach with China might actually make Europeans keener to make an agreement with Brazil, so they don’t lose even more market share to China in South America,” Stuenkel said

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So China should more quickly really free trade with these deep south american countries which will allow them to take over the South American tech market.

Yes, Huawei getting closer to Saudi Arabia and putting regional HQ there is the correct thing to do. There are more projects & contracts there
It can still have a large office in Dubai, but it needs to work on training locals to use Huawei products

Chinese company offers $10B for access to Afghanistan's vast lithium reserve. but you know given the issues in Afghanistan, success of this is not great
I'd like to see them getting copper mine going further

Another good article here. It points to a lot of good points about how quickly DC insiders turn on a country when it doesn't go 100% with America's position. And this kind of attitude will imo just push Brazil and other Latin American countries closer to China
China's reputation really suffered during 3 years of COVID. but with time passing by and other issues coming to the table (like inflation, famine and such), China has a great chance of improving its reputation in all these countries.

I'm encouraged so see many of the agreements involve not just business but also cultural stuff. There is not a lot of cultural bound bw china and south america, so always good to see that grow.

Stierlitz said:

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Thank you for posting that, I've been waiting for that exclusive interview since yesterday.

"I've seen times when Brazil had higher wages than China..." Lula started as a factory worker and only learned how to read when he was 10- I think he has a immense understanding of societal inequality and the necessity of poverty alleviation. No wonder he's such a big fan of Xi's work and China's progress. He's practically Brazil's Xi. They both uplift the poor, protect the environment, and like football. maybe Brazilian-Chinese students will finally help realize China's dream of having a world-class football team.

Latin American Media is indeed putting on the Xi-Lula environmental agreement. I think this may be a cultural thing (Amazon a national treasure) rather than because of any significant economic impacts.

tphuang said:

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Good article here. Brazil really wants to reindustrialize. So that would go beyond satellite partnership and BYD. I think Huawei will need to setup a factory there. Huawei in general needs to focus more on the global south. It spent enough time showering EU politicians with gifts and that didn't go anywhere. It needs to focus on countries like Brazil, Mexico and Saudi Arabia.

The other good point there is

So China should more quickly really free trade with these deep south american countries which will allow them to take over the South American tech market.

Yes, Huawei getting closer to Saudi Arabia and putting regional HQ there is the correct thing to do. There are more projects & contracts there

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

It can still have a large office in Dubai, but it needs to work on training locals to use Huawei products

Chinese company offers $10B for access to Afghanistan's vast lithium reserve. but you know given the issues in Afghanistan, success of this is not great

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

I'd like to see them getting copper mine going further

Another good article here. It points to a lot of good points about how quickly DC insiders turn on a country when it doesn't go 100% with America's position. And this kind of attitude will imo just push Brazil and other Latin American countries closer to China

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

China's reputation really suffered during 3 years of COVID. but with time passing by and other issues coming to the table (like inflation, famine and such), China has a great chance of improving its reputation in all these countries.

I'm encouraged so see many of the agreements involve not just business but also cultural stuff. There is not a lot of cultural bound bw china and south america, so always good to see that grow.

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South America already has some strong social bonds with China. Lula has close Chinese friends and Brazilians have the saying "as patient and wise as a Chinese". I think Macao has definitely played a influential role as a language portal translating Chinese news and media into Portuguese.

More of this is what we want to see:

Chinese tech giants are creating a new class of elite workers in Latin America​

China creating a pro-China, educated middle class there. Like I said, societal transformation is taking place and China should seize that opportunity.

tphuang said:

So China should more quickly really free trade with these deep south american countries which will allow them to take over the South American tech market.

Click to expand...

An FTA between China and Mercosur would take at least 5 years. Mind you, that's assuming that everything goes very smoothly with zero delays

Someone on this forum once claimed most of indian intellectuals/elites are sellouts to US, even ppl like the indianpunchline guy. I was certain at that time Bhadrakumar was a just a Indian Russia shill and not a US one, now I'm not so sure. My prediction is that India is the weakest link in SCO and BRICS. India would probably sabotage both organizations just to get more US aid.

Good thing India isn't in RCEP and BRI, China is learning that India's political nature is not a dependable partner, I think we'll see more China initiatives that discretely leave India out.

Btw, Brazil getting an invitation to attend is a blessing in disguise. Back in the day, Hu and Singh used to send Lula to listen in on G8 discussions. Undoubtedly Lula will continue to do so for Xi, considering his support for building a BRICS five eyes. This G7 meeting is going to be all about China so it should provide valuable information on possible countermeasures and who is the weakest link.

gadgetcool5 said:

IMO a strong India is in China's interest because eventually India will want to look after its own interests, which means not being a slave of the West. I see it aspiring to become an independent power as opposed to a Japan-style vassal. India poses no threat to China, only the West has decided it wants to threaten China. Remember how China and the USSR actually went to war over the border conflict in the 1960s, but by 1989 Gorbachev was in Beijing. Had the Soviets not committed seppuku at the same time theyd be in a great strategic position now. The more independent powers are out there challenging Western hegemony, whether it be India, Russia, Brazil, Saudi, Iran, SEA, Africa, you name it.... the better for China long term. Imo this is one of the main points of belt & road. They are building a new world.

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Strong India is good for economic security, but not so much for national security. India recently join west to counter china when it comes to china western region. Also India has problems with most of it neighbors which china has good relations with. So china has to balance relation with India properly.

India the same as turkey, Economic cooperation Yes, military and security cooperation No.

Interesting point, but brics is just economic partnership, not something far worse like membership SCO that russia cause it.