Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) and Global South strategic cooperation

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
See that's the problem. I vastly disagree with most of this forum on how China should treat India. If there is anything this past year has taught us, India is not part of the cool kid club and it knows that. In places like multi-polar world and de-dollarization, India and China have a lot of mutual interest.
China failed to get India on their side but it is not for lack of trying. The forum's attitude toward India is a result from these repetitive failures and the disproportional difficulty of befriending India for their national power. China do not discriminate. They even tried to befriend Japan who is a historical enemy, yet somehow India is harder to woo than Japan.

The case for India is a mental case not lack of carrot and stick. For countries like those best to leave them alone, isolate them until they have desire to "create the condition". This is doubly true because India refuse to commit to American either. If India refuse to join China, and also refuse to help China's enemy, then they are safe to be left alone. Whereas Europeans despite difficulties still need to be won over. If Europeans are not on your side they are on American side.

In summary India should be left alone by China for two reasons: difficulty/reward ratio to befriend is unfavorable, and lack of negative consequence to ignore.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
China failed to get India on their side but it is not for lack of trying. The forum's attitude toward India is a result from these repetitive failures and the disproportional difficulty of befriending India for their national power. China do not discriminate. They even tried to befriend Japan who is a historical enemy, yet somehow India is harder to woo than Japan.

The case for India is a mental case not lack of carrot and stick. For countries like those best to leave them alone, isolate them until they have desire to "create the condition". This is doubly true because India refuse to commit to American either. If India refuse to join China, and also refuse to help China's enemy, then they are safe to be left alone. Whereas Europeans despite difficulties still need to be won over. If Europeans are not on your side they are on American side.

In summary India should be left alone by China for two reasons: difficulty/reward ratio to befriend is unfavorable, and lack of negative consequence to ignore.

China doesn't need India to join the Chinese side. China needs India to stay on the India side and that would be a win actually. Worst case scenario would be for India to turn into Germany where it damages its own interests just to advance U.S. ones.
 

resistance

Junior Member
Registered Member
tphuang -- Yes it's quite sad India has not been capable of accepting China's repeated offers to improve relationships. For instance, last year China said let's resolve borders, water, etc concurrently and India responded borders first and maybe those other issues. I think India's leaders are incapable of reading a topographic map
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But watching India's glee over it's temporary G20 leadership and its reluctance (refusal) to join Asian activities (eg, RCEP, BRI
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) points to its inability to put economic interests over political prestige.

China has only so many assets available for foreign policy and with Pakistan taking a turn for the worse I think those assets will be redirected to the west end of CPEC.
For India, it's like turkey that they aren't reliable to engaging about security. Economic co-operation is enough for them.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
See that's the problem. I vastly disagree with most of this forum on how China should treat India. If there is anything this past year has taught us, India is not part of the cool kid club and it knows that. In places like multi-polar world and de-dollarization, India and China have a lot of mutual interest.
India has its own ambitions in the long term.

China will do the bare minimum for India in the short-medium term to win against the hegemon but in the far future, India will need to be carefully monitored and suppressed if India can't accept the Chinese world order in the long term

A mountain can't have two tigers
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
India has its own ambitions in the long term.

China will do the bare minimum for India in the short-medium term to win against the hegemon but in the far future, India will need to be carefully monitored and suppressed if India can't accept the Chinese world order in the long term

A mountain can't have two tigers
see, I think China has to accept a stronger India long term. They are never going to be bffs, but India fundamentally is also against the collective west meddling. There are some common grounds there that can be negotiated.

Anyhow, I was expecting more to come out, but maybe some Huawei or BYD deal will be announced later
so far, major one here seems to be satellite manufacturing
 

coolgod

Colonel
Registered Member
see, I think China has to accept a stronger India long term. They are never going to be bffs, but India fundamentally is also against the collective west meddling. There are some common grounds there that can be negotiated.

Anyhow, I was expecting more to come out, but maybe some Huawei or BYD deal will be announced later
so far, major one here seems to be satellite manufacturing
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习近平强调,今年是中巴建立战略伙伴关系30周年,明年将迎来两国建交50周年。中国正在推动高质量发展和高水平对外开放,以中国式现代化全面推进中华民族伟大复兴,将为包括巴西在内的世界各国带来更多机遇。双方要保持经常性战略沟通,加强治国理政经验交流,坚定视彼此为重要发展机遇,坚定支持彼此走符合本国国情的发展道路,坚定支持发展中国家加强团结协作。双方要深化务实合作,稳步推进现有重大合作项目,深挖农业、能源、基础设施建设、航空航天、科技创新等领域合作潜力,探索加强绿色经济、数字经济、清洁能源等合作,欢迎更多巴西优质产品进入中国市场。中方愿积极探讨共建“一带一路”同巴西“再工业化”战略对接。双方要以明年庆祝两国建交50周年为契机,密切人文领域交流合作,夯实中巴友好民意基础。
Huawei and BYD deals are small stuff, BRI and Yuan Internationalization are the big stuff.
 

Chevalier

Captain
Registered Member
Updates from other BRI projects.

A new coal power plant built by Huadian for Cambodia is entering into commercial service
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After 3 years of COVID, Pakistani students are now able to once again study in China
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Pakistan looking for China to accelerate those infrastructure projects ML-1 & KCR
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Tunisia is looking to join BRICS+

And now that the road connecting China & Pakistan has re-opened, traffic has started again

China agreeing with Russia to build railway to resource rich Sakha region (a really huge land area). This will make it easier for China to import Russian resources
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Recall that back in 2020 during the height of Doklam, the fat bastard Pompeo was gloating over having destroyed BRICS since bolsonaro’s Brazil became an Anglo satrapy and India was aspiring to be the sepoy to Anglo America and China and Russia had not yet built a no limits partnership…my, my how the turntables…

Recall also how Obama rudely barged into a BRICS meeting in 2009 and tried to claim Lula as a good friend…mere months later, Obama and Hilary Clinton would try to contain china via the infamous Pivot.

 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
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Huawei and BYD deals are small stuff, BRI and Yuan Internationalization are the big stuff.
For China, BRI & Yuan internalization are the big stuff.

For Brazil, they care about industrialization. So that's the incentive China can provide for other global south countries. We have the tech that western countries don't provide and we will supply them to you

Here is a good article on China's relationship with Saudis
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China has incentives it can dangle in transforming the economy of many resource rich countries.

And it can provide that to friendly countries in ASEAN like Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia. Sorry @ansy1968 Philippines messed up here
Recall that back in 2020 during the height of Doklam, the fat bastard Pompeo was gloating over having destroyed BRICS since bolsonaro’s Brazil became an Anglo satrapy and India was aspiring to be the sepoy to Anglo America and China and Russia had not yet built a no limits partnership…my, my how the turntables…

Recall also how Obama rudely barged into a BRICS meeting in 2009 and tried to claim Lula as a good friend…mere months later, Obama and Hilary Clinton would try to contain china via the infamous Pivot.

Exactly, China now isn't the China from 10 years ago. It has things to offer.

We will see when BYD's plants get set up in Brazil. Looks like Ford deal might not come through so they will need to setup new plant

in this case, Brazil wants to play multiple powers, but I'm not sure that's going down so well in Washington
 

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
see, I think China has to accept a stronger India long term. They are never going to be bffs, but India fundamentally is also against the collective west meddling. There are some common grounds there that can be negotiated.

Anyhow, I was expecting more to come out, but maybe some Huawei or BYD deal will be announced later
so far, major one here seems to be satellite manufacturing
Here is the thing, India will not become stronger. China offered low cost infrastructure program to India that is immensely helpful to India but they still rejected it. It is not for lack of proper incentives. Countries like this will not grow stronger. They will collapse under their hubris and the economic trend reflect this. All the GDP gain they earn goes to the elites only, or is made up entirely. The comprehensive national power is going down. India is the biggest scam of this century and I have yet to see one investor go in and come up on top. 2015 India could still call itself a developing emerging power, but current India is a terminal case. Just make sure they won't drag us with them in a jealous fit.
 
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