Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) and Global South strategic cooperation

tphuang

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Doesn't turkey look for hegemon in central Asia too? A Chinese backyards from your logic.

Also why I have to be in Greece to know what relation between china and Greece look like? Past 2 decades action of Greece has been proved.
I would say turkey is a regional power and not even the most powerful in its region

for countries like this, if they go against Chinese interests like what Canada is doing right now, we just ignore them and let them deal with the consequences of pissing of a super power

India is large enough and will grow big enough economically that you need a concerted strategy for India. It is relevant. The only question is how you can get India to be less antagonistic toward you without going against your own interests. India is never going to be okay with China having allies all around it and selling those allies massive amount of weapons

as for Greece, it’s fundamentally a southern European country. It had good relationships with China due to previous govt and investments there. But longer term, its world view isn’t much different than Italy or Spain. It’s a little different than Hungary in that Hungarians think they have Asian heritage due to the mongols. So there might be something more there. We shouldn’t dismiss having good relationships with Greece, but I also wouldn’t be surprised if that one becomes more like Italy in a few years.
 

AndrewS

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Doesn't turkey look for hegemon in central Asia too? A Chinese backyards from your logic.

Also why I have to be in Greece to know what relation between china and Greece look like? Past 2 decades action of Greece has been proved.

I would rate Turkey, Iran and Saudi all as roughly equal as regional powers.
There is no hegemon in the Middle East.

And in Central Asia, Turkey doesn't even share a border with any Central Asian country,
So Turkey simply cannot compete with Russia, China or even Turkey.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
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And in Central Asia, Turkey doesn't even share a border with any Central Asian country,
So Turkey simply cannot compete with Russia, China or even Turkey.
The Turks are working on getting direct access to Azerbaijan. Which would mean they could then use the Caspian Sea to connect to Central Asia.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
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The Turks are working on getting direct access to Azerbaijan. Which would mean they could then use the Caspian Sea to connect to Central Asia.

But to get to Azerbaijan, Turkey has to go through Armenia or Georgia.
Then you have the Caspian Sea.

All those borders and interchanges increase transport costs and transit times.

---
In comparison, Iran shares a land border, so trucks and trains can go direct.
The same applies to Russia and China, which are far more influential in terms of economics, military and culture in Central Asia.

Turkey just isn't a serious player in Central Asia in comparison
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
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The Turks already pass through Georgia. They even have pipelines along that route like TAPI. But they want direct connection to the Caspian via Azerbaijan. Haven't you been following the conflicts between Azerbaijan and Armenia? It is a matter of time until they have a direct route.
 

CasualObserver

Junior Member
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Have you ever been to Greece?

This is extremely wishful thinking on your end.

there is no Pakistan anywhere else.

do you fundamentally understand why China and India cannot get along? If you do, then explain to me how that can be compared to turkey.
Does he even have any idea just how large the American presence in Greece is? I do not oppose him saying China needs better relations with them, but wishing for more than that is as said just wishful thinking...

Greeks also often have this mentality or vision of becoming the Israel of Europe for the US. The realization of this vision is another matter but this just shows you what their priorities are.

If I were China, I'd just try to improve relations with West Balkan countries in stead. There aren't many potential friends/allies left for China in Europe, even if there is one or two currently, it is just a matter of some time before they too need to sever ties with China to appease their American overlords...
 

Serb

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I've been to Greece 10 times, and as he said, it basically isn't any different compared to Italy or Spain in terms of being an American lapdog. It has some commercial interests with China, but many EU countries have it too.

The best friend of China in Europe is Serbia without a doubt, and then Hungary, which is also the best friend within the EU. I'm excluding Belarus, I count that as a part of Russia itself already.

The problem is that both Hungary and we are landlocked by 100% pro-US countries. The rest of the West Balkans excluding 49% of the Serb-controlled territory of Bosnia is also the same - not any better (and also in NATO).



Serbs also used to control Montenegro (Mediterranean access) but basically CIA crept up slowly since around two decades ago and the rest is self-explanatory (they made their number one priority to prevent Serbia from having access to the sea, you know why):

Achieving Montenegrin independence formally in 2006, mass brainwashing the entire population with funding NGOs, media control, political party control, intelligence operations, threats, etc.

Still continuing everything mentioned from then to this day. They even managed to throw it in NATO in 2017 despite no referendum being held and a majority of the population being against it at that time.

They are fully occupied 100%, and the politicians there behave like some US hostages. And not just through fear, they certainly have more money to spend there for influence than Serbia to pay all those foreign pro-West agents there.

To be honest, that was already more than 2 decades of development that now can't be washed away in Montenegro anymore. They developed a distinct ethnic identity despite historically, culturally, linguistically, and ethnically always considered to be Serbs in the past.



I think that there is no possibility of Montenegro leaving NATO or becoming fully Serb-controlled, or pro-Russian again soon (they were heavily pro-Russian during history, just like the rest of Serbs), but there have been some positive developments for local Serb interest at least recently.

The previous fascist regime toward Serbs that led to soft genocide against Serbs since 2006 was now replaced with new, milder toward Serbs, but still pro-Western, series of mini-regimes since the 2020 protests (that also include some Serb parties in gov. for the first time since 2006).

There was just a new population census done at the end of 2023 and is expected to be positive for us once official results come out, here are broad estimates. Serb population around 35-40%, Serbian-speaking population around 51%. Serbian Orthodox Church members are also 2/3.
 

tphuang

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Fundamentally we don’t have great hope here for countries that are in nato or have American troops on its soil. Best we can hope for is robust commercial partnership.

Saudis are promising because they are not aligned and are increasingly buying weapons from China.

Best course of outcome is for eu to continue to decline and same with Korea and Japan. Support global south countries and Russia aligned European countries like Belarus and Serbia. That’s pretty much the way to go.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
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I wouldn't put much faith in the Middle Eastern Arab countries in the Gulf region. They have huge amounts of money parked in the West.
Their defense establishment is also heavily dependent on Western weapons imports.
While they are trying to increase their own weapons production it will take a long time until we see proper results from this.
 
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