Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) and Global South strategic cooperation

resistance said:

China also got huge trade surplus from US EU and many western countries far exceeding turkey. Which means if china goes full hostile against turkey, there will be huge trade surplus anyways. Also, should china favor the west over north Korea from your logic?

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I have no idea what you are saying. China runs a huge surplus with Turkey. I don't see Turkey going against China's interest in any major way. It is however a country that seems to play both sides, so it makes sense for China to keep good relationship with them.

And yes, China should try to keep good relationship with the EU also. Longer term, China needs to de-industrialize EU. However, it is still a large market which China needs for its export engine. As such, China needs to try to have a good relationship with EU.

resistance said:

India has switch between Russia and US, it never join Chinese camp if there's no Russia in equation. India policies is clearly hostile to china and you can't deny that. Anyways, if you want to keep India from going further align the west, hostile to turkey is the only solution.

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i don't see why being hostile to Turkey will keep India from further aligning with the west. That has no logic

resistance said:

Pakistan serve Chinese interest in countering India. Otherwise it's like Myanmar that keep delaying projects. I see this similarities since the Imran Khan deposed.

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keep denigrate your top ally in the region and you will see how that serves China

You have no idea just how much military help Pakistan offered to China in the past and how it still helps China now.

This is really disrespectful to Pakistan

resistance said:

Iran somehow resemble both north Korea and 3 brotherhood alliance in Myanmar when it comes to Chinese interest. They may disrupt Chinese economic interest but greatly help Chinese security and politics which china willing to trade for. This is china long term interest that both balance economic and security.

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Let's get something straight here. Iran needs to behave if they want to get treated better by China.

TK3600 said:

I pick Iran kicking US out of middle east over some car sale to Turkey any day.

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Is Iran actually doing that? All I've seen is Iran going chicken everytime the west assassinates one of its leaders. And then somehow decided it needs to attack Pakistan. How is this going in China's interests?

Minm said:

We also should consider that whatever happened, Pakistan and Iran decided to forgive and forget. There's probably more going on than what we know. If Pakistan isn't holding a grudge, why should anyone else do so on their behalf?

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oh, so it's okay now for Iran to attack Chinese allies. All Iran has shown me is a country that has its own interest, which frequently don't align with China. And Chinese govt is treating Iran exactly like such. I entirely approve of Chinese govt's handling of Iran.

resistance said:

China Iran trade also disrupted by US piracies too. US have seized many oil tanker from Iran to china multiple times

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That's not China's problem. If Iran can't deliver the oil tankers, that's it's problem. Why do we need to have sympathy for them?

If it really wants to sell oil to China, it should've been trying to build a pipeline to China long time ago. Why didn't it do that?

All it has done is show that it won't be able to supply oil to China in the event of a conflict.

Guys, think about this.

What is Iran bringing to the table? It is bringing to the table of a country that is seeking to be its own power. Many of its citizens don't trust China because they access all these Farsi language media operated by the West, which bashes China. It has only bought weapons from Russia, not China. China doesn't run a large surplus against them. They don't buy a lot of Chinese cars because they want to have their industry (sounds like Turkey and EU to you?)

It is afraid of getting into a real conflict with America, so it's trying to drag China into helping it.

China helped its standing big time by getting it to sign that treaty with Saudi Arabia. And now, it decides attacking China's top ally is okay.

tphuang said:

Is Iran actually doing that? All I've seen is Iran going chicken everytime the west assassinates one of its leaders. And then somehow decided it needs to attack Pakistan. How is this going in China's interests?

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If going chicken is starting proxy war with US resulting in expelling decade long US occupation in Iraq, then Iran should keep going chicken! Syria is next.

@tphuang @TK3600 @resistance

Me coming back to this thread after taking a 3 hour break from the forum:



Whatever. I don't have much to say or do here except to point out how much of a hate boner everyone has against Turkey these days. Think about it, the West (US & EU), the East (Ru & Ch & Ir) & non-aligned factions all love love kicking Turkey around in its current fragile state. And while some of this animosity is surely justified, the rest is just exaggerated bias.

Anyways, I'm frankly ok with it. Yall can keep fighting about relations with Turkey but mind you that the government is in fact criticized harshly back @ home for being soft to China (imo there isn't much to do here) and many also state the need to do something about the huge trade imbalance with China. ( and Russia).

CasualObserver said:

@tphuang @TK3600 @resistance

Me coming back to this thread after taking a 3 hour break from the forum:

View attachment 124458

Whatever. I don't have much to say or do here except to point out how much of a hate boner everyone has against Turkey these days. Think about it, the West (US & EU), the East (Ru & Ch & Ir) & non-aligned factions all love love kicking Turkey around in its current fragile state. And while some of this animosity is surely justified, the rest is just exaggerated bias.

Anyways, I'm frankly ok with it. Yall can keep fighting about it but the government is in fact criticized harshly back @ home for being soft to China (imo there isn't much to do here) and many also state the need to do something about the huge trade imbalance with China. ( and Russia).

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No I don't hate Turkey at all. I just hate it when people compare Iran with Turkish economic contribution when Iran is carrying in Middle East right now. They just delivered a heavy blow to China's enemy and people think it is still not pulling its weight!

TK3600 said:

No I don't hate Turkey at all. I just hate it when people compare Iran with Turkish economic contribution when Iran is carrying in Middle East right now. They just delivered a heavy blow to China's enemy and people think it is still not pulling its weight!

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I didn't say you hated Turkey, I just made a generalization of what your average human being from other nations thinks.

tphuang said:

I have no idea what you are saying. China runs a huge surplus with Turkey. I don't see Turkey going against China's interest in any major way. It is however a country that seems to play both sides, so it makes sense for China to keep good relationship with them.

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Ever looked at the flag of the East Turkestan Independence Movement? Why do you think they picked that particular flag?
Where do most people from ETIM who flee from China end up living? In Turkey.
Insurgents from ETIM and Chechnya have entered Syria's Idlib province from the Turkish border, fight against the Syrian Army, and are supplied via Turkey. Turkey regularly uses those insurgents as mercenaries not just in Syria but also Azerbaijan in the conflict against Armenia and in the Libyan civil war.
Try reading about the Gülen movement from Turkey. They have built schools all over Central Asia as an avenue to indoctrinate people and radicalize them. They also used to be close to the government in Turkey. Were close until they tried to take Erdogan's place in a US sponsored coup.



Erdogan as a Pan Turkic supports Turkish autonomy or independence all over areas with Turkic peoples living in them.

Erdogan is one of those people claiming there is a Uyghur genocide in Xinjiang. The only reason he has mostly shut up lately is that his country is teetering on the edge of bankruptcy and he needs Chinese money.

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welcomed

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to Ankara on Wednesday in the leader's first visit to the country since taking office in 2021.The visit aims to ease tension between the two countries, with the leaders scheduled to discuss relations as well as the war in

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, where Israel is intensifying its aerial attacks on the enclave's south.
Mr Raisi said the trip would also focus on economic developments, with Tehran hoping to boost bilateral trade to $30 billion. Mr Raisi and Mr Erdogan will also hold a meeting of top tradesmen and economists from both countries, state outlet IRNA reported.

The Iranian President added that Turkey and Iran share a common stance on Palestine, saying that “lifelines” to Israel must be cut off to stop its attacks on Gaza.

Also on the agenda is the presence of the

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in northern Iraq's mountain ranges.

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TK3600 said:

If going chicken is starting proxy war with US resulting in expelling decade long US occupation in Iraq, then Iran should keep going chicken! Syria is next.

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if you are China, you'd like US to get bogged down in the middle east, not to withdraw from middle east. That's in China's interest. Why would you want US to withdraw from Syria?

TK3600 said:

No I don't hate Turkey at all. I just hate it when people compare Iran with Turkish economic contribution when Iran is carrying in Middle East right now. They just delivered a heavy blow to China's enemy and people think it is still not pulling its weight!

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I don't see why you need to compare the two. They are different relationships. China has relationship with Turkey for the same reason it has relationship for many countries. It is good to have good relationship with other countries and you want to keep that market open for your product. It's a mercantile relationship, which is how it should be. I don't really care what Turkey does as long as it's not going around attacking my friends.

Iran on the other hand did attack one of my top friends. That's a huge problem. I'm not going to attribute Houthi efforts to Iran. The entire Houthi as Iranian proxy is over played.

Keep in mind that Iran is doing some things in China's interest because those are also in Iran's interests. It's fundamentally a country that wants to be its own power and its interest will sometimes be against China's interest

So it's not so different from many other countries. But since it has fewer choices and less geopolitical pull, you are not going to treat it as well as you would with Brazil or Saudi Arabia or Indonesia

gelgoog said:

Erdogan as a Pan Turkic supports Turkish autonomy or independence all over areas with Turkic peoples living in them.

Erdogan is one of those people claiming there is a Uyghur genocide in Xinjiang. The only reason he has mostly shut up lately is that his country is teetering on the edge of bankruptcy and he needs Chinese money.

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I have no issue with Turkey defending it's own interest. It wants to be its own power. China's relationship with Turkey is a mercantile one. It doesn't need to improve more than that.

Erdogan is someone willing to do deals. That's someone China can have a useful relation with.
of course, it's also someone you should never turn your back toward, because you will get stabbed.

tphuang said:

if you are China, you'd like US to get bogged down in the middle east, not to withdraw from middle east. That's in China's interest. Why would you want US to withdraw from Syria?

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Hey, not Iran's fault US decided to "play chicken", to put in your own words.

tphuang said:

I don't see why you need to compare the two. They are different relationships. China has relationship with Turkey for the same reason it has relationship for many countries. It is good to have good relationship with other countries and you want to keep that market open for your product. It's a mercantile relationship, which is how it should be. I don't really care what Turkey does as long as it's not going around attacking my friends.

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You must have confused me with others. I have no qualm with Chinese relationship with Turkey. For all I care China can be friendly with US if it serves China. I just don't like it when you use Turkey to put down Iran's contribution.

tphuang said:

I have no idea what you are saying. China runs a huge surplus with Turkey. I don't see Turkey going against China's interest in any major way. It is however a country that seems to play both sides, so it makes sense for China to keep good relationship with them.

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tphuang said:

I don't see why you need to compare the two. They are different relationships. China has relationship with Turkey for the same reason it has relationship for many countries. It is good to have good relationship with other countries and you want to keep that market open for your product. It's a mercantile relationship, which is how it should be. I don't really care what Turkey does as long as it's not going around attacking my friends.

I have no issue with Turkey defending it's own interest. It wants to be its own power. China's relationship with Turkey is a mercantile one. It doesn't need to improve more than that.

Erdogan is someone willing to do deals. That's someone China can have a useful relation with.
of course, it's also someone you should never turn your back toward, because you will get stabbed.

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tphuang said:

oh, so it's okay now for Iran to attack Chinese allies. All Iran has shown me is a country that has its own interest, which frequently don't align with China. And Chinese govt is treating Iran exactly like such. I entirely approve of Chinese govt's handling of Iran.

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It's every surprised that your logic like:
Iran interest ; attack one ally that doesn't really go anti India that much and comply with US.
VS
turkish interest ; currently support terrorist and host them, show how it target Chinese EVs without treating EU the same (directly attacking chinese interest)
You choose Turkish interest.
For me : I'll choose Iran

tphuang said:

Keep denigrate your top ally in the region and you will see how that serves China

You have no idea just how much military help Pakistan offered to China in the past and how it still helps China now.

This is really disrespectful to Pakistan

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What did Pakistan help china now if not going against India? Pakistan china ally is mainly about india. If there's no India there wouldn't be that ally at the beginning.

tphuang said:

That's not China's problem. If Iran can't deliver the oil tankers, that's it's problem. Why do we need to have sympathy for them?

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The pipeline needs to pass many countries in central Asia, some of them wants to hold monopoly. And also why don't Pakistan rush Karakorum railways and pipeline linking Xinjiang now when it's just about china and Pakistan themselves? This resemble Myanmar right now. Delaying projects?
Btw, Iran already building pipe connect to Pakistan. The only segment left of the pipeline is Pakistan to china border.

Iran has a strategic value for Chinese security. It's a wall that defense outsider force from entering central Asia and eventually Xinjiang. China even make the statement recently about warning not to violate Iran territorial integrity, this is very similar to warning during before Korean war happened.