Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) and Global South strategic cooperation

tphuang

tphuang

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resistance said:
That top Ally is also lost from coup years ago. Didn't dare to oppose India anymore.

It's also amazing that you make excuse for India, that no.1 enemies of the top Allies even before the coup happened.
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I don't make excuse for India. I just think it's in China's interest to keep India from being more aligned with the West.

My perspective is what is in China's best interests longer term and what is sustainable? Sometimes for these countries that are currently being vied for between Western & China/Russia camp, you have to butter them up a little bit

resistance said:
The tariff is the indicator that turkey will choose west over china. Otherwise EU cars would be treat the same. This doesn't count the interference in Xinjiang, direct at china.
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Biscuits said:
The audacity of you to say people "make excuses" for Iran when Iran at least fights, kills and bleeds for the progress of defeating enemies of China and the global community, when Pakistan itself has backtracked on all its complaints, while you in the next breath makes excuses for the terror sponsoring NATO state of Turkey, that has the blood of innocent Chinese civilians on its hands, and proved extreme hostility by attacking our trade in EVs.

Turkey is the one that must be sunk into the dustbins of history, and the likes of Iran, really anyone willing to raise a militia or weapon to pike them covertly, are the ones who should be lauded and recieve support.
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I don't need to make excuses for Turkey. I don't care about them. I do like the fact that China runs a major trade surplus against them. Much larger than any trade surplus against Iran. Still have not received any counters to the fact I posted that China exported 110k cars to Turkey in 2023. Pretty large #

I do have a problem with Iran for going so hard against China's interests by attacking its top ally in the region who continues to buy Chinese weapons and is 100% loyal to China's interests regardless of who is in their leadership.

You may want to take a look at Iran and see whose weapons they use. And then take a look at Pakistan. The latter is a country that is 100% friendly with PLA, because they get all their weapons from China. The first is a country that wants to be its own power, which in many cases means it will go against China's interest. China also runs a major trade surplus against Pakistan. They buy everything we sell them. What more can China expect out of a partner like that?

I frankly don't understand people are picking for Iran over Pakistan. When was the last time Pakistan did not respect China's interest?

in this case, Iran clearly went against China's interest. It cares about its own interest. It has ambitions of its own power.

Unfortunately, its interest does not always line up with China's interests.

Think about everything in terms of China's interest
 
R

resistance

Junior Member
Registered Member
tphuang said:
I don't make excuse for India. I just think it's in China's interest to keep India from being more aligned with the West.

My perspective is what is in China's best interests longer term and what is sustainable? Sometimes for these countries that are currently being vied for between Western & China/Russia camp, you have to butter them up a little bit




I don't need to make excuses for Turkey. I don't care about them. I do like the fact that China runs a major trade surplus against them. Much larger than any trade surplus against Iran. Still have not received any counters to the fact I posted that China exported 110k cars to Turkey in 2023. Pretty large #

I do have a problem with Iran for going so hard against China's interests by attacking its top ally in the region who continues to buy Chinese weapons and is 100% loyal to China's interests regardless of who is in their leadership.

You may want to take a look at Iran and see whose weapons they use. And then take a look at Pakistan. The latter is a country that is 100% friendly with PLA, because they get all their weapons from China. The first is a country that wants to be its own power, which in many cases means it will go against China's interest. China also runs a major trade surplus against Pakistan. They buy everything we sell them. What more can China expect out of a partner like that?

I frankly don't understand people are picking for Iran over Pakistan. When was the last time Pakistan did not respect China's interest?

in this case, Iran clearly went against China's interest. It cares about its own interest. It has ambitions of its own power.

Unfortunately, its interest does not always line up with China's interests.

Think about everything in terms of China's interest
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China also got huge trade surplus from US EU and many western countries far exceeding turkey. Which means if china goes full hostile against turkey, there will be huge trade surplus anyways. Also, should china favor the west over north Korea from your logic?

India has switch between Russia and US, it never join Chinese camp if there's no Russia in equation. India policies is clearly hostile to china and you can't deny that. Anyways, if you want to keep India from going further align the west, hostile to turkey is the only solution.

Pakistan serve Chinese interest in countering India. Otherwise it's like Myanmar that keep delaying projects. I see this similarities since the Imran Khan deposed.

Iran somehow resemble both north Korea and 3 brotherhood alliance in Myanmar when it comes to Chinese interest. They may disrupt Chinese economic interest but greatly help Chinese security and politics which china willing to trade for. This is china long term interest that both balance economic and security.
 
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M

Minm

Junior Member
Registered Member
tphuang said:
I don't make excuse for India. I just think it's in China's interest to keep India from being more aligned with the West.

My perspective is what is in China's best interests longer term and what is sustainable? Sometimes for these countries that are currently being vied for between Western & China/Russia camp, you have to butter them up a little bit




I don't need to make excuses for Turkey. I don't care about them. I do like the fact that China runs a major trade surplus against them. Much larger than any trade surplus against Iran. Still have not received any counters to the fact I posted that China exported 110k cars to Turkey in 2023. Pretty large #

I do have a problem with Iran for going so hard against China's interests by attacking its top ally in the region who continues to buy Chinese weapons and is 100% loyal to China's interests regardless of who is in their leadership.

You may want to take a look at Iran and see whose weapons they use. And then take a look at Pakistan. The latter is a country that is 100% friendly with PLA, because they get all their weapons from China. The first is a country that wants to be its own power, which in many cases means it will go against China's interest. China also runs a major trade surplus against Pakistan. They buy everything we sell them. What more can China expect out of a partner like that?

I frankly don't understand people are picking for Iran over Pakistan. When was the last time Pakistan did not respect China's interest?

in this case, Iran clearly went against China's interest. It cares about its own interest. It has ambitions of its own power.

Unfortunately, its interest does not always line up with China's interests.

Think about everything in terms of China's interest
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The problem with trade with Iran is that companies are scared of such trade being used as an excuse for the US to sanction them, following the Huawei example. It's not that Iran is unwilling to buy, many Chinese companies are unwilling to sell. A lot of the trade is also opaque and declared as "Malaysia" rather than Iran. Similarly, I'm sure Iran would love to buy Chinese weapons, but does China really want to sell? Maybe yes, if the peace between Iran and the Sunni Arabs holds for a few years, but not now.

We'll start to see a similar problem with Russia soon. Chinese companies will end up being scared off the Russian market once the US starts applying secondary sanctions. This clearly requires government guarantees and safe financial channels to continue trading
 
R

resistance

Junior Member
Registered Member
Minm said:
The problem with trade with Iran is that companies are scared of such trade being used as an excuse for the US to sanction them, following the Huawei example. It's not that Iran is unwilling to buy, many Chinese companies are unwilling to sell. A lot of the trade is also opaque and declared as "Malaysia" rather than Iran. Similarly, I'm sure Iran would love to buy Chinese weapons, but does China really want to sell? Maybe yes, if the peace between Iran and the Sunni Arabs holds for a few years, but not now.

We'll start to see a similar problem with Russia soon. Chinese companies will end up being scared off the Russian market once the US starts applying secondary sanctions. This clearly requires government guarantees and safe financial channels to continue trading
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China Iran trade also disrupted by US piracies too. US have seized many oil tanker from Iran to china multiple times
 
B

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
Minm said:
The problem with trade with Iran is that companies are scared of such trade being used as an excuse for the US to sanction them, following the Huawei example. It's not that Iran is unwilling to buy, many Chinese companies are unwilling to sell. A lot of the trade is also opaque and declared as "Malaysia" rather than Iran. Similarly, I'm sure Iran would love to buy Chinese weapons, but does China really want to sell? Maybe yes, if the peace between Iran and the Sunni Arabs holds for a few years, but not now.

We'll start to see a similar problem with Russia soon. Chinese companies will end up being scared off the Russian market once the US starts applying secondary sanctions. This clearly requires government guarantees and safe financial channels to continue trading
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The law bans following non-Chinese and non-international sanctions. It's a slam dunk case in any court if a Chinese company refuses to provide legitimate services to Russia or Iran.

As can be clearly seen, Russia and Iran continue today and will continue in the future to recieve the full scope of products and services as guided under international law.

Selling military equipment is another matter. For Russia, they have their own arms industry and will not make large purchases unless absolutely forced to, it's no different than France never going to US for weapons. If Russia would need to massively expand or if they were facing battlefield struggles, a lend lease might be possible, but it isn't the current situation.

For Iran, it is more that they are not 100% trustworthy to recieve better weapons from China yet. They have ties to many armed rebels, some of which have controversial views, and they also have no qualms about striking anywhere in the region. It's not someone China should blindly give its best weapons to, without seeing they have good long term stability first.
 
TK3600

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
Iran is selling oil, kicking NATO ass in middle East. What has India and Turkey done for China that you keep bragging about? Iran stopped after Chinese intervention. Pakistan hit back, now they bros again. When has Turkey and India stopped after Chinese complaints?
 
TK3600

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
tphuang said:
I don't make excuse for India. I just think it's in China's interest to keep India from being more aligned with the West.

My perspective is what is in China's best interests longer term and what is sustainable? Sometimes for these countries that are currently being vied for between Western & China/Russia camp, you have to butter them up a little bit




I don't need to make excuses for Turkey. I don't care about them. I do like the fact that China runs a major trade surplus against them. Much larger than any trade surplus against Iran. Still have not received any counters to the fact I posted that China exported 110k cars to Turkey in 2023. Pretty large #

I do have a problem with Iran for going so hard against China's interests by attacking its top ally in the region who continues to buy Chinese weapons and is 100% loyal to China's interests regardless of who is in their leadership.

You may want to take a look at Iran and see whose weapons they use. And then take a look at Pakistan. The latter is a country that is 100% friendly with PLA, because they get all their weapons from China. The first is a country that wants to be its own power, which in many cases means it will go against China's interest. China also runs a major trade surplus against Pakistan. They buy everything we sell them. What more can China expect out of a partner like that?

I frankly don't understand people are picking for Iran over Pakistan. When was the last time Pakistan did not respect China's interest?

in this case, Iran clearly went against China's interest. It cares about its own interest. It has ambitions of its own power.

Unfortunately, its interest does not always line up with China's interests.

Think about everything in terms of China's interest
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I pick Iran kicking US out of middle east over some car sale to Turkey any day.
 
M

Minm

Junior Member
Registered Member
TK3600 said:
Iran is selling oil, kicking NATO ass in middle East. What has India and Turkey done for China that you keep bragging about? Iran stopped after Chinese intervention. Pakistan hit back, now they bros again. When has Turkey and India stopped after Chinese complaints?
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We also should consider that whatever happened, Pakistan and Iran decided to forgive and forget. There's probably more going on than what we know. If Pakistan isn't holding a grudge, why should anyone else do so on their behalf?
 
M

Minm

Junior Member
Registered Member
Biscuits said:
The law bans following non-Chinese and non-international sanctions. It's a slam dunk case in any court if a Chinese company refuses to provide legitimate services to Russia or Iran.

As can be clearly seen, Russia and Iran continue today and will continue in the future to recieve the full scope of products and services as guided under international law
Click to expand...
I see Iran repeatedly begging for investment and China signing the 25 year agreement with them, but no money actually flows. The Huawei example is still frightening for companies like byd that want to sell to western markets. Chinese law is not enough to change that. No Chinese court can make the US reimburse Huawei for the financial damage that came from the sanctions. And remember, the justification they used was that Huawei was selling to Iran
 
B

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
Minm said:
I see Iran repeatedly begging for investment and China signing the 25 year agreement with them, but no money actually flows. The Huawei example is still frightening for companies like byd that want to sell to western markets. Chinese law is not enough to change that.
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Yet Iran recieves everything it wants as long as it is fairly paid for.
Minm said:
No Chinese court can make the US reimburse Huawei for the financial damage that came from the sanctions. And remember, the justification they used was that Huawei was selling to Iran
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For Huawei to sue the US government is different, it would make troublesome precedent to sue a sovereign government. That is an impossible bar to meet for either US or China, even against small ass countries, so there's no point in setting that as legal standard. China acted appropriately, using superiority in intel to defend Huawei from illegal actions (kidnapping), but it could not intervene in legal civil court matters that are solely between US domestic sectors and Huawei, without setting an impossible precedent.

That said, in the long term, China has written new laws and set up defenses globally to drain and damage US. So while China cannot openly demand US pay reparations in Huawei, it is clear that covertly speaking, any manner of restrictions, extralegal acts and geopolitical manipulation can be used to exact revenge.
 
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