Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) and Global South strategic cooperation

tphuang

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They bomb balochi terrorists, the same ones that threatened to attack China in Pakistan.

I mean it's pretty simple, Pakistan isn't even the main country they attacked. They did strikes across a few friendly countries, aimed at pro US/pro Israeli terrorists infesting those areas. So when China for example activates assets/flies spec ops to defeat cartel warlords in SEA, does that mean China is not a friend anymore to say Myanmar, Laos etc? No, it just means it helps other countries keep their houses in line, if they're not stable enough to do so.

And that's clearly the case for Syria and Iraq (where they also succeeded in assassinating a major Mossad connected figure). For Pakistan, more questionable since they're generally more stable than the others.

But clearly Pakistan doesn't care, if they viewed it as a real attack, it'd be war. Instead, they went after more US friendly terrorist, just inside Iran. And Iran didn't shoot them down for it either, so it's clear Iran doesn't care as well.
right, so you think it's okay to just do extra-territorial killing?

What if Iran strikes inside China to attack known terrorists? Would you be okay with that?

Did it look like Pakistan not care about this? They did their own counter strike and kicked out Iran's Ambassador?

Did Iran start wars with certain Western countries after they did extra-territorial killing of its generals? Did they? If not, then extra-territorial killing clearly isn't justification for war.

It's amazing to me how you are making so many excuses for Iran.

Pakistan is a failed state that has received dozens of billions of investment from China and not much to show for it. They also have no ability to combat terrorism inside their territory and they are now getting closer to the Americans. I don't feel sorry for them.

The Iranian attack inside Pakistan (not against Pakistan, obviously) was stupid and not defensible, but it has nothing to do with China and is very unlikely to escalate. Iran needs to learn to respect others' sovereignty and Pakistan needs to get serious on terrorism. Sadly, just urging them to stop terrorism doesn't seem to be very effective.

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Why would Iran feel it owes something to China for the Saudi deal? Didn't China gain a lot of diplomatic clout by being involved? All three parties benefited, nobody owes any favours. Where Iran does owe China is in the entry to brics and sco. However, I still believe that's mostly Russia's influence.


I think China is getting a lot of respect via the houthis with their Iranian weapons who don't target ships that advertise links to China.
in what we has Pakistan gotten closer to America? pakistan is basically the most loyal country to China. It's population consistently has one of the highest favorability of China. Has Pakistan done anything except buying more Chinese weapons, do more military cooperation with China and work with China on CPEC?

You are actually going to equate Iran to Pakistan? What has Iran done for China except putting China in an awful position right now?

Have they bought any Chinese hardware? Did they turn to China before they had no choice with the West?

Know who your friends are.
This is between Iran and Pakistan, and has nothing to do with China! It is an old story, and mostly reflects the many connections established by the CIA in Pakistan starting with the first Afghan war against the Soviet Union and maintained through the nineties and the last two decades. These ties have even been used against Pakistan itself, if we remember the Red Mosque incident. Terrorist incidents have often been perpetrated against Iran from Pakistani soil, and apparently this happened recently on the anniversary of Solemaini's death. This has everything to do with the continuous 40+ year "hybrid war" waged by the US against Iran.

I doubt China is anything but happy that Iran is taking terrorism seriously and combatting it. I see absolutely no evidence that China wants Iran to be "peaceful" towards these terrorists and none of this is "disrespectful to China". If anything, it is disrespectful to Baloch terrorists and their foreign backers. And China is not in a "terrible position" because it is nobody's nanny.
what a joke. You think China is happy that two of its "allies" are having this kind of serious spats? This won't get in a war, but China has worked hard to consolidate Sunni & Shiite relationship in the region, so that it can form united Muslim front against Western influence. This is clearly something that will divide that front.

As to this "ranking" of allies (Pakistan #1) it is pure fiction. No such ranking exists. In any case, Pakistan and China are "iron brothers" because of their common problem in India. Both countries need each other. However, I do not see any major cooperation on world affairs, or even regional affairs beyond this. In fact Pakistan has its problems with Afghanistan as well. I think the cooperation with the new BRICS countries is indeed more profound, even if it is newer. The new arrangements in the Middle East have Iran at their center, and these new arrangements are changing every equation for the US. I'm not sure where Pakistan fits in this, and I'm not sure they are very comfortable with the new Middle East. For what it's worth, I also don't think Turkiye or Qatar are very comfortable either.
Then you are unaware of just how much military cooperation there is between China and Pakistan. Pakistan has bought basically every piece of military hardware that China sells. It allowed China to see and measure up F-16 back in the days even when America was working pretty hard to forbid Chinese access to it. Through Pakistan, it has gained more understanding at how NATO style air forces operate. When China is ready, Gwadar will likely be a future naval port for China. Pakistan was the first country to buy Chinese nuclear plants and continue to buy more. Pakistan never complains when China runs these huge trade surpluses against it.

The most you can say about Pakistan is that it has weak leadership that have kept its economy weak.

Why do we need to make Iran the center of Middle East under BRICs? That's like the dumbest thing to do ever. There are so many Sunnis countries. why make Iran more important than it deserves? What has Iran done for China to get such loyal following in SDF?

I have no idea.
 

Biscuits

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right, so you think it's okay to just do extra-territorial killing?

What if Iran strikes inside China to attack known terrorists? Would you be okay with that?

Did it look like Pakistan not care about this? They did their own counter strike and kicked out Iran's Ambassador?
Pakistan is seeking reapproachment already...

Iran was wrong in disregarding Pakistan sovereignty, but they were doing something that is helpful to Pakistan. Of course extra territorial killing is ok, as long as it's against enemies to China's bloc.

Pakistan showed Iran that they cannot act like they do with the occupied middle eastern countries that need Iran to help bring their houses into order, and Iran, it seems, listens and acknowledges their mistake in treating a relatively well functioning and relatively free country as if it was an US occupied area.

They infantilized Pakistan, and Pakistan showed that they are in fact capable of anti terror operations. Iran must back down and acknowledge error, and as far as I know, they are doing so.
Did Iran start wars with certain Western countries after they did extra-territorial killing of its generals? Did they? If not, then extra-territorial killing clearly isn't justification for war.

It's amazing to me how you are making so many excuses for Iran.
They also killed the officers of western countries (or idk if you count Israel into that) and there is no official war declared on them.
 

tphuang

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Pakistan is seeking reapproachment already...

Iran was wrong in disregarding Pakistan sovereignty, but they were doing something that is helpful to Pakistan. Of course extra territorial killing is ok, as long as it's against enemies to China's bloc.

Pakistan showed Iran that they cannot act like they do with the occupied middle eastern countries that need Iran to help bring their houses into order, and Iran, it seems, listens and acknowledges their mistake in treating a relatively well functioning and relatively free country as if it was an US occupied area.

They infantilized Pakistan, and Pakistan showed that they are in fact capable of anti terror operations. Iran must back down and acknowledge error, and as far as I know, they are doing so.

They also killed the officers of western countries (or idk if you count Israel into that) and there is no official war declared on them.
Stop your excuse making for Iran.

Pakistan and Iran “fixed things up” because China is behind scenes and pushing its “allies” together

it was a ridiculous situation in the first place.

Iran needs to know its place. If it creates problems for China for no good reason, then China will not look upon it kindly.

We here are first and foremost supporters of China, not Iran. Think about whether or not Iran has been acting in china’s interests.
 

Overbom

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Pakistan is seeking reapproachment already...

Iran was wrong in disregarding Pakistan sovereignty, but they were doing something that is helpful to Pakistan. Of course extra territorial killing is ok, as long as it's against enemies to China's bloc.

Pakistan showed Iran that they cannot act like they do with the occupied middle eastern countries that need Iran to help bring their houses into order, and Iran, it seems, listens and acknowledges their mistake in treating a relatively well functioning and relatively free country as if it was an US occupied area.

They infantilized Pakistan, and Pakistan showed that they are in fact capable of anti terror operations. Iran must back down and acknowledge error, and as far as I know, they are doing so.
You talk like this is just some minor mistake/error where we then shake hands and everything is ok. If you talked for an individual it might be ok, but for a state to do this is deeply concerning

That top Iranian political and military leaders convened, discussed, approved, and executed such an action is entirely different from a person making a simple mistake or error. This should trouble you and others much more than anything else.

That's why the Arabs are so deeply distrustful of Iran. That's also why now Pakistan is also going to be much more proactive and distrustful of Iran. Same for China as well.

Just think about it more, Iran only made it up with Pakistan because IMO China made these comments. What does this show, that without Chinese pressure Iranians default back to their thuggish ways. This has caused all of its neighboring countries to be distrustful towards it.

Iranian action was entirely inappropriate and 100% against Chinese interests. China wants Pakistan to fully focus on India, not to watch its back all the time from getting attacked by Iranian assets.

I can assure you that this stupid and naive Iranian action will have made Chinese leaders to may have some seconds thoughts on Iranian behaviour and to how much it can cooperate with it
 

montyp165

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in fact, judging by American netizens of 4chan and reddit, it is hoped that a war against China will give purpose and meaning to these males who are too cowardly to rise in revolution for a better society but are content to act as foot soldiers doing violence and rape on asians.
What happened to Imperial Japan is what lies in store for them should they continue down that path.
 

Minm

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Stop your excuse making for Iran.

Pakistan and Iran “fixed things up” because China is behind scenes and pushing its “allies” together

it was a ridiculous situation in the first place.

Iran needs to know its place. If it creates problems for China for no good reason, then China will not look upon it kindly.

We here are first and foremost supporters of China, not Iran. Think about whether or not Iran has been acting in china’s interests.
Iran, unlike Pakistan, is a crucial part of the global fight against American hegemony of the global order. Most people are able to appreciate how Iranian actions distract America and draw their attention away from East Asia.

You talk like this is just some minor mistake/error where we then shake hands and everything is ok. If you talked for an individual it might be ok, but for a state to do this is deeply concerning

That top Iranian political and military leaders convened, discussed, approved, and executed such an action is entirely different from a person making a simple mistake or error. This should trouble you and others much more than anything else.

That's why the Arabs are so deeply distrustful of Iran. That's also why now Pakistan is also going to be much more proactive and distrustful of Iran. Same for China as well.

Just think about it more, Iran only made it up with Pakistan because IMO China made these comments. What does this show, that without Chinese pressure Iranians default back to their thuggish ways. This has caused all of its neighboring countries to be distrustful towards it.

Iranian action was entirely inappropriate and 100% against Chinese interests. China wants Pakistan to fully focus on India, not to watch its back all the time from getting attacked by Iranian assets.

I can assure you that this stupid and naive Iranian action will have made Chinese leaders to may have some seconds thoughts on Iranian behaviour and to how much it can cooperate with it
It does seem a bit suspicious how they made up so quickly. It looks more like an example of miscommunication rather than Iran blatantly disregarding Pakistani sovereignty. And they also didn't really complain about the Pakistani retaliation strike inside Iran. They've really shown quite a lot of restraint in various conflicts and didn't escalate. We don't know if China was involved in mediation between them at all, it only took a day after all

Iran also doesn't have a history of striking in other countries without permission. It has conducted attacks in Syria, after Assad requested help. And they've struck Iraqi Kurds before, but only after turkey did so first and got away with it. There was the attack on Saudi oil facilities, but I think we can all agree now that the houthis were perfectly capable of doing that by themselves after being invaded by the Saudis.

So the strike in Pakistan doesn't fit with Iranian behaviour at all, that's why it's so surprising and confusing to people. The very quick resolution of the "dispute" shows that the two islamic republics probably did have some secret agreements about this beforehand and somebody made a mistake.
 

tphuang

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Iran, unlike Pakistan, is a crucial part of the global fight against American hegemony of the global order. Most people are able to appreciate how Iranian actions distract America and draw their attention away from East Asia.
oh, they are useful when they are doing that. They are not particularly useful when they start launching strikes into Pakistan without telling Pakistan about it. I supposed you'd also be okay with Iran launching missile strikes into China if there is something Iran doesn't like going on out there.

It does seem a bit suspicious how they made up so quickly. It looks more like an example of miscommunication rather than Iran blatantly disregarding Pakistani sovereignty. And they also didn't really complain about the Pakistani retaliation strike inside Iran. They've really shown quite a lot of restraint in various conflicts and didn't escalate. We don't know if China was involved in mediation between them at all, it only took a day after all

Iran also doesn't have a history of striking in other countries without permission. It has conducted attacks in Syria, after Assad requested help. And they've struck Iraqi Kurds before, but only after turkey did so first and got away with it. There was the attack on Saudi oil facilities, but I think we can all agree now that the houthis were perfectly capable of doing that by themselves after being invaded by the Saudis.

So the strike in Pakistan doesn't fit with Iranian behaviour at all, that's why it's so surprising and confusing to people. The very quick resolution of the "dispute" shows that the two islamic republics probably did have some secret agreements about this beforehand and somebody made a mistake.
Of course China is involved behind the scene. But Iran has wiped out a lot of good will it has collected in the past year by this act. This was extremely reckless

Stop giving them excuses. What they did is wrong and the fact that they did it against China's top ally (without giving Pakistan gov't even a heads up) is quite alarming. If I'm sitting somewhere in Beidaihe planning out my multipolar view of future, I'm going to have to do serious thinking about Iran's role in it.
 
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