Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) and Global South strategic cooperation

canonicalsadhu said:

India will not back down, so China really has no choice other than either to push India into the Western camp or to compromise. It's really that simple. Given that China has bad relations with the entire developed world - US + Canada + UK + EU + Japan + SK + Australia, is it really rational for China to make another enemy with the most populous nation and the fastest growing major economy? I don't think so.

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You ought to change the "canonical" in your name to "comical".

India is already in the Western camp. India spent centuries colonized by Britain so its present role comes as naturally as breathing to it. Don't pretend India has the power to make independent foreign policy choices, nobody here with two functioning brain cells to spare buys it.

China's "bad relations" with the West is entirely the West's fault. It's an unavoidable result of two immutable facts: 1) China's unstoppable ascent, and 2) The West's racism. Incidentally, India would have bad relations with the West as well if it were anything but a basket case. You have "good relations" with the West because the idea of India rising and threatening the West's hegemony is an absolute joke.

Fastest growing major economy? By how much does India's economy grow each year? In relative terms, it's nothing special. China grew at twice the rate when it was at a similar stage of development. In absolute terms, India's growth is barely a rounding error in comparison to China's growth.

ZeEa5KPul said:

You ought to change the "canonical" in your name to "comical".

India is already in the Western camp. India spent centuries colonized by Britain so its present role comes as naturally as breathing to it. Don't pretend India has the power to make independent foreign policy choices, nobody here with two functioning brain cells to spare buys it.

China's "bad relations" with the West is entirely the West's fault. It's an unavoidable result of two immutable facts: 1) China's unstoppable ascent, and 2) The West's racism. Incidentally, India would have bad relations with the West as well if it were anything but a basket case. You have "good relations" with the West because the idea of India rising and threatening the West's hegemony is an absolute joke.

Fastest growing major economy? By how much does India's economy grow each year? In relative terms, it's nothing special. China grew at twice the rate when it was at a similar stage of development. In absolute terms, India's growth is barely a rounding error in comparison to China's growth.

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Another issue is Indian rupee devaluation against dollar over the years by 2/3. All those growth would be meaningless if rupee kept devaluated against other major currencies.

canonicalsadhu said:

India will not back down, so China really has no choice other than either to push India into the Western camp or to compromise. It's really that simple. Given that China has bad relations with the entire developed world - US + Canada + UK + EU + Japan + SK + Australia, is it really rational for China to make another enemy with the most populous nation and the fastest growing major economy? I don't think so.

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Thats basically blackmail by India and what you're suggesting is giving into them.

You cannot give in to blackmail or it will never end. You might as well just give up everything.

If China must fight against "the entire developed world" then so be it. The rest of the world will fight with China, for the very simple fact that China is now the only bulwark against a second age of slavery. And everyone knows it. That's why the SCO exists, BRICS is being developed, countries are de dollarizing nonstop and western oligarchs are panicking so much.

For the record, I am not an Indian and I would appreciate if you and others stop the personal attacks.

ZeEa5KPul said:

India is already in the Western camp. India spent centuries colonized by Britain so its present role comes as naturally as breathing to it. Don't pretend India has the power to make independent foreign policy choices, nobody here with two functioning brain cells to spare buys it.

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It hasn't taken West's position on Ukraine, and it has abstained from UN resolution condemning China on Xinjiang and other issues. India's ambition is to be a major power with an independent foreign policy under a multipolar world order. This is something that China can accomodate and should encourage.

Fastest growing major economy? By how much does India's economy grow each year? In relative terms, it's nothing special.

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6-8% which is not like China which registered 10+ at the same level of GDP/capita but it's nothing to scoff at. The fact of the matter is that other countries with similar GDP/capita are doing significantly worse and it is clear that India is courting the West's technology to help its growth which will it a boost.

China grew at twice the rate when it was at a similar stage of development. In absolute terms, India's growth is barely a rounding error in comparison to China's growth.

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You understand that even if India grows at half the pace of China's India will be much bigger than Germany or Japan and will have significant economic clout because of its sheer population size?
China now has bad relations with the entire developed world which is 65% of the global economy. It cannot afford to alienate another major country like India which is growing very fast if it desires to win the competition against the US.

Fedupwithlies said:

That's why the SCO exists, BRICS is being developed, countries are de dollarizing nonstop and western oligarchs are panicking so much.

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SCO and BRICS include India. At this point, they are just glorified annual meetings with no fruitful results precisely because of the hostile China-India relations. If China and India better relations, then these platforms can be elevated into serious organizations with serious results.

canonicalsadhu said:

For the record, I am not an Indian and I would appreciate if you and others stop the personal attacks.

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Let me guess...you are "Nepalese"?

canonicalsadhu said:

SCO and BRICS include India. At this point, they are just glorified annual meetings with no fruitful results precisely because of the hostile China-India relations. If China and India better relations, then these platforms can be elevated into serious organizations with serious results.

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Right...all these meetings and agreements that have been formed over the past few months are suddenly worthless because India.

canonicalsadhu said:

SCO and BRICS include India. At this point, they are just glorified annual meetings with no fruitful results precisely because of the hostile China-India relations. If China and India better relations, then these platforms can be elevated into serious organizations with serious results.

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If they're useless then Countries wouldn't be trying to get in to badly.

And that India is part of them and not NATO or the G7 should tell you where India sees her future.

canonicalsadhu said:

For the record, I am not an Indian and I would appreciate if you and others stop the personal attacks.

It hasn't taken West's position on Ukraine, and it has abstained from UN resolution condemning China on Xinjiang and other issues. India's ambition is to be a major power with an independent foreign policy under a multipolar world order. This is something that China can accomodate and should encourage.

6-8% which is not like China which registered 10+ at the same level of GDP/capita but it's nothing to scoff at. The fact of the matter is that other countries with similar GDP/capita are doing significantly worse and it is clear that India is courting the West's technology to help its growth which will it a boost.

You understand that even if India grows at half the pace of China's India will be much bigger than Germany or Japan and will have significant economic clout because of its sheer population size?
China now has bad relations with the entire developed world which is 65% of the global economy. It cannot afford to alienate another major country like India which is growing very fast if it desires to win the competition against the US.

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China is not the cause of bad relations with India. India is the cause of bad relations with India. Does India have a single ally or even non hostile country other than colonial Bhutan that is within 1000 km distance? No. China does, but not India. India follows the literal bronze age strategy of 远交近攻.

Fedupwithlies said:

If they're useless then Countries wouldn't be trying to get in to badly.

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What useful results have BRICS and SCO yielded?
Compare that to something like the G7 and NATO which US is able to successfully use to contain and suppress its enemies like Iran, Russia, and China.

And that India is part of them and not NATO or the G7 should tell you where India sees her future.

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NATO is a trans-atlantic organization and G7 is the rich countries club. India has no reason to join them. But it's part of Quad and the US is trying to elevate the grouping to become another anti-China alliance.

resistance said:

Is this enough for you?

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it's just wild speculation based on his own opinion.

taxiya said:

India backing down or not is your choice, China's choice is not backing down either. If you threat China by joining the west, so be it. It is not like India isn't doing that already such as QUAD. India is wellknown for playing double faces and standing in two boats. Such country doesn't worth any friendship. It is India making itself not worth consideration in Chinese mind. It's is just that simple.

India is ALREAYD an enemy of China since late 1950s as early as the west. You think China is not aware of that? You think China gives a dime of your threat? Remind you, last time Chinese had physical fighting wasn't with any western country but India.

Chinese is convinced that in the event of war with the west over Taiwan or SCS and ECS India will try to play games at the himalaya regardless what China does today, that is the nature of hyena. Kashmir is one of our insurance policies.

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China doesn't need to be India's friend. It has a friend in Pakistan. What it does need to do is to subtly encourage India to expand in its own ways, which is generally a terrible thing for the collective west, who just wants to the global south to tie each other down with fighting. As long as India pushes for trading in its own currency and encourages other country to move away from the Western led system, it's an asset.

anyways, the big news of the day is China-Central Asia summit in Xian. By all looks, it is going really well

I particular liked this part
priorities for China in transportation

by the way, it seems like kazakhstan leader got the front page on people's daily and the other leaders got the 2nd page. shows who is most important to China