Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) and Global South strategic cooperation

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
I have faith Middle East will have peace restored again. Americans out. China in. Now all their backers are unified into same bloc.

Saudi Arabia has no more apetite for war and is recently interested in developing industry and make their meme mega city.

Iran is finally out of sanction and can develop normally.

American is under full retreat, soon out of Syria.

Trully once in a century miracle. Turkey seems to waver as well. After that only Israel is left.
 

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
Saudi-Turkish relations were actually quite bad. The summarize, Turkey of the early 2010s tried to build its own sphere of influence in the middle east by supporting various groups and intervening in civil wars caused by the Arab Spring. There were some short lived successes too. One of the groups Turkey supported was Muslim Brotherhood which was a terrorist organization according to Saudi Arabia. Saudi-Turkish relations were so bad at one point that Saudis were blocking imports from Turkey and not giving visas to Turkish citizens. Saudi Arabia also supported the Greek coalition during tensions related to Eastern Mediterranean.

This all changed after the US started to pull out from the Middle East. Also during these times Covid happened, the Turkish economy went bad and Turkey started to feel really lonely. Saudis were also uncertain about the future at this point. This is when both sides decided to normalize relations. Things look calm now but make no mistake, both sides don't trust each other.
Both Turkey and Saudi Arabia supported Jihadist groups in other Arab countries but not their own. I don't see how this is a difference in position. It's no different to Israel supporting liberal globalist values in America and Europe while they're an ethnostate.

I don't know when you mean when you say America pulled out of the Middle East, they are still there. Turkey stopped the "Assad must go" long before before the GCC countries did once they realised that Americans were arming Kurds who were channelling back into Turkey. The Saudis stuck with it for much longer, but when it became clear Assad was staying they stopped too.
As I said, you gotta be careful if you want to have relations with Gulf states. They are quick to normalize but also they can infamously sell you out. The Saudi-Iran agreement has built up hope for China but dozens of such events happened in the past for no avail. This time the purpose of it seems to be for buying some more time for both sides.
Saudi Arabia have been very stable in terms of foreign relations. They held onto the American pigtails (ahem, cowtails) for as long as America was the number one power. Their rulers have realised America's time is up and are now casting their lot with China.

Unlike that of Turkey under Erdogan, who will backstab anyone and everyone for no reason. Turkey by far is less trustworthy than any Arab country. Is there a major country/bloc in the world that Turkey hasn't had a diplomatic fallout with in the last few years?

One minute Turkey is a close ally of Israel, the next they are threatening them. The same with their relations with EU/NATO and their threats again Greece. Not to mention how things have been playing out with Russia. I can't think of any country as untrustworthy as Turkey, let alone an Arab one.

I think limited cooperation with Turkey is a good idea but they can never be relied upon as an ally by anyone.
 

canonicalsadhu

Junior Member
Registered Member
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This will perhaps sound controversial but I'm very disappointed to see China sacrificing an opportunity to better relations with India in order to appease Pakistan. At this point, Pakistan is a failed state. China has been sinking tens of billions of investment of BRI into the sinkhole that is Pakistan and yet its economy and political stability continue to worsen. Yes, I know that dumping allies is not a good move given that China is now building a new world order but honestly propping up failed allies who refuse to improve is not a good signal to send either. Get your shit together or get dumped should be the message China is sending.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
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This will perhaps sound controversial but I'm very disappointed to see China sacrificing an opportunity to better relations with India in order to appease Pakistan. At this point, Pakistan is a failed state. China has been sinking tens of billions of investment of BRI into the sinkhole that is Pakistan and yet its economy and political stability continue to worsen. Yes, I know that dumping allies is not a good move given that China is now building a new world order but honestly propping up failed allies who refuse to improve is not a good signal to send either. Get your shit together or get dumped should be the message China is sending.
It is a trap instead of opportunity. India's choice is a provocation to both Pakistan and China, I emphasize both.

Kashmir is a region without clear defination of border that involves THREE countries, China, Pakistan and India, not just Pakistan and India. China and Pakistan have settled their border long ago, however India claims the whole Kashmir including the Chinese part that was settled with Pakistan.

On a general level, India choosing a disputed area for G20 is exactly the same aggressive behaviour in Southern Tibet and Aksai Chin. To which there is no room for compromise but push-back with full force. China's act today is a principle.

I am sure you are an Indian (Sadhu gives away), and I am astonished that you think you can fool your opponent buy saying "cutting your arm is an oppotunity to be friend with me." You think Chinese are as stupid as you?

No matter what state Pakistan is in, it is our brother. No matter what you try to potrait India to be, our message is always "get out of Kashmir and Southern Tibet before you can get a better relationship".
 

canonicalsadhu

Junior Member
Registered Member
It is a trap instead of opportunity. India's choice is a provocation to both Pakistan and China, I emphasize both.

Kashmir is a region without clear defination of border that involves THREE countries, China, Pakistan and India, not just Pakistan and India. China and Pakistan have settled their border long ago, however India claims the whole Kashmir including the Chinese part that was settled with Pakistan.

On a general level, India choosing a disputed area for G20 is the exactly the same aggressive behaviour in Southern Tibet and Aksai Chin. To which there is no room for compromise but push-back with full force. China's act today is a principle.

I am sure you are an Indian (Sadhu gives away), and I am astonished that you think you can fool your opponent buy saying "cutting your arm is an oppotunity to be friend with me." You think Chinese are as stupid as you?

No matter what state Pakistan is in, it is our brother. No matter what you try to potrait India to be, our message is always "get out of Kashmir and Southern Tibet before you can get a better relationship".
India will not back down, so China really has no choice other than either to push India into the Western camp or to compromise. It's really that simple. Given that China has bad relations with the entire developed world - US + Canada + UK + EU + Japan + SK + Australia, is it really rational for China to make another enemy with the most populous nation and the fastest growing major economy? I don't think so.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
India will not back down, so China really has no choice other than either to push India into the Western camp or to compromise. It's really that simple. Given that China has bad relations with the entire developed world - US + Canada + UK + EU + Japan + SK + Australia, is it really rational for China to make another enemy with the most populous nation and the fastest growing major economy? I don't think so.
India backing down or not is your choice, China's choice is not backing down either. If you threat China by joining the west, so be it. It is not like India isn't doing that already such as QUAD. India is wellknown for playing double faces and standing in two boats. Such country doesn't worth any friendship. It is India making itself not worth consideration in Chinese mind. It's is just that simple.

India is ALREAYD an enemy of China since late 1950s as early as the west. You think China is not aware of that? You think China gives a dime of your threat? Remind you, last time Chinese had physical fighting wasn't with any western country but India.

Chinese is convinced that in the event of war with the west over Taiwan or SCS and ECS India will try to play games at the himalaya regardless what China does today, that is the nature of hyena. Kashmir is one of our insurance policies.
 
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