Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) and Global South strategic cooperation

coolgod said:

I wouldn't trust this "Discord Leaks", this is just a new method for US to spew out propaganda since their credibility has gone down the drains. This is similar to ICIJ which is an obvious CIA front trying to steal wikileaks reputation.

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Pakistan has come out stronger than this in committing it's support to China. I don't know what you are trying to say. The entire Pakistani military use Chinese gears at this point. Outside of some old F-16s, what does Pakistan even need America for?

anyway, looks like Iran & saudi Arabia will abide by their commitment to open embassies within 2 months of the agreement. Great to see

Iran must be feeling quite in danger, because it's proposal maritime security belt among SCO countries. I'm not sure how any of this is possible unless Iran provides joint SCO naval bases in its territory.

so if I get this, Iran is looking for China to protect it against America. Seems like a big commitment for China to make

I could be entirely wrong here, but that's what the last 2 links would indicate to me at least

tphuang said:

Pakistan has come out stronger than this in committing it's support to China. I don't know what you are trying to say. The entire Pakistani military use Chinese gears at this point. Outside of some old F-16s, what does Pakistan even need America for?

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anyway, looks like Iran & saudi Arabia will abide by their commitment to open embassies within 2 months of the agreement. Great to see

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Iran must be feeling quite in danger, because it's proposal maritime security belt among SCO countries. I'm not sure how any of this is possible unless Iran provides joint SCO naval bases in its territory.

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so if I get this, Iran is looking for China to protect it against America. Seems like a big commitment for China to make

I could be entirely wrong here, but that's what the last 2 links would indicate to me at least

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I'm saying we should discard the "discord leaks" and treat it like other pieces of US propaganda. Being a "leak" doesn't make the information more "truthful" or representative of reality.

Do we really need US propaganda to shape our notions of the reliability of Pakistan's relationship with China? If we do we're clearly in big trouble.

tphuang said:

Pakistan has come out stronger than this in committing it's support to China. I don't know what you are trying to say. The entire Pakistani military use Chinese gears at this point. Outside of some old F-16s, what does Pakistan even need America for?

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anyway, looks like Iran & saudi Arabia will abide by their commitment to open embassies within 2 months of the agreement. Great to see

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Iran must be feeling quite in danger, because it's proposal maritime security belt among SCO countries. I'm not sure how any of this is possible unless Iran provides joint SCO naval bases in its territory.

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so if I get this, Iran is looking for China to protect it against America. Seems like a big commitment for China to make

I could be entirely wrong here, but that's what the last 2 links would indicate to me at least

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Some more Iran related stuff:


Apr 8, 2023, 6:00 PM

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TEHRAN, Apr. 08 (MNA) – "We have no money blocked in China. Many projects in Iran today are being carried out by the Chinese," according to the Iranian ambassador to Beijing, in an interview with Mehr.

In an interview with Mehr, the Iranian envoy to China Mohammad Keshavarzadeh said that the East Asian country wants a win-win relationship with the world and does not seek hegemony and domination over other nations.

With regard to the Iran-Saudi Arabia agreement which was signed in the Chinese capital, Keshavarzadeh said as the Chinese foreign minister Qin Gang emphasized in the meeting between Mr. Amir-Abdollahian and the Saudi foreign minister, Beijing hosted the talks which resulted in the agreement to restore diplomatic ties between Iran and Saudi Arabia not to secure its own interests but it sought to bring two important countries in the region to sit down for talks together to create more peace and stability in the Middle East region.

"As the Chinese Foreign Minister said that agreement could set a role model for the other countries of the region to resolve their differences through dialogue," said the ambassador, adding "The Chinese really showed goodwill in that regard."

He went on to say that the relations between Tehran and Beijing have always been progressing and developing, adding "China is a buyer of Iranian oil and most of our country's domestic needs are met by China."

Keshavarzadeh also answered the question of whether Iran has any blocked money in China saying, " No, we do not have money blocked in China. Many projects in Iran today are carried out by the Chinese, and some projects are also underway. Also, Americans sanctioned many Chinese companies and Chinese companies suffered. In spite of that, the Chinese firms continue to be present in Iran."

The diplomat also said that the Western countries have waged media propaganda against China because they are jealous of Beijing's progress and development.

"According to the statistics published by Western countries, the living standards of the Chinese people have completely changed in the last forty years. One has to point out that the wealth that the Chinese gained was not obtained from the colonization of other countries. China was not like the Western countries that went to colonize Africa or Latin America or Asia and plunder their wealth."

KI/5749474


News Code 199226


Apr 29, 2023, 10:50 PM

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TEHRAN, Apr. 29 (MNA) – Iran's commercial exchanges with its leading trade partner, China, reached $4.04 billion during the first three months of 2023, registering a 5.1% increase compared with the corresponding period of the year before.

Latest data released by China’s General Administration of Customs show Iran’s exports totaled $1.13 billion during the period, indicating a 41.3% year-on-year decrease.

In return, China exported $2.91 billion worth of goods to Iran, registering a 51.9% YOY rise.

Bilateral trade hit $1.94 billion in March 2023 with Iran’s exports at $445.22 million and imports at $1.49 billion.

MNA/PR

News Code 200050

tphuang said:

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Iran must be feeling quite in danger, because it's proposal maritime security belt among SCO countries. I'm not sure how any of this is possible unless Iran provides joint SCO naval bases in its territory.

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The American solution (having US base everywhere) isn't the only solution, nor the best. Strengthening cooperation such as standardised training and communication, intel exchange, equipment supply and ammunition storage is enough. Instead of making a puppet navy, make the Iranian and Pakistani Navy strong enough to be responsible for the most of the time in their area while PLAN can regularly visit their ports and cruise the region without making a Chinese base.

On a more general level, China hasn't asked Pakistan to make Guardar a PLAN base, why press Iran to do so? And I believe China would never need to do so. There is always the risk of being dragged into the dispute of one country to another if you have a military base in one country, a risk that you want to avoid. You have by many times worried about Iran doing something to SA, putting a PLA base in Iran is going to raise the concern of Arab countries.

taxiya said:

The American solution (having US base everywhere) isn't the only solution, nor the best. Strengthening cooperation such as standardised training and communication, intel exchange, equipment supply and ammunition storage is enough. Instead of making a puppet navy, make the Iranian and Pakistani Navy strong enough to be responsible for the most of the time in their area while PLAN can regularly visit their ports and cruise the region without making a Chinese base.

On a more general level, China hasn't asked Pakistan to make Guardar a PLAN base, why press Iran to do so? And I believe China would never need to do so. There is always the risk of being dragged into the dispute of one country to another if you have a military base in one country, a risk that you want to avoid. You have by many times worried about Iran doing something to SA, putting a PLA base in Iran is going to raise the concern of Arab countries.

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where did I say that China should have a base in Iran? Can you find where I said that?

I'm pretty annoyed that you are insinuating this

I'm actually quite uncomfortable about the idea of China providing maritime security blanket for other countries far away from its home base. It's not even possible to do so before it has nuclear submarines.

Now tell me, how do you think Iranian navy can get strong enough to actually defend itself? And if you cannot think of a reasonable path, then what can China actually provide for them to change that situation?

tphuang said:

where did I say that China should have a base in Iran? Can you find where I said that?

I'm pretty annoyed that you are insinuating this

I'm actually quite uncomfortable about the idea of China providing maritime security blanket for other countries far away from its home base. It's not even possible to do so before it has nuclear submarines.

Now tell me, how do you think Iranian navy can get strong enough to actually defend itself? And if you cannot think of a reasonable path, then what can China actually provide for them to change that situation?

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During the 1970s the Shah of Iran had intended to build up the Imperial Iranian Navy to be able to power project into the Indian Ocean; as such 4 DDGs (Kidd class) and 8 FFGs (Kortenaer class) were planned before the revolution prevented that from happening. If Iran were to be strong enough in terms of naval firepower to provide strategic support for China, then completing that program would go a long way in that respect (e.g., 4 Type 52Ds plus 8 Type 054As plus a Type 903 replacement for the sunk IRIS Kharg).

tphuang said:

I'm actually quite uncomfortable about the idea of China providing maritime security blanket for other countries far away from its home base. It's not even possible to do so before it has nuclear submarines.

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I concur. At best China should offer law enforcement, fisheries protection and safety to mariners via its CCG in coordination with other countries Coast Guards.

taxiya said:

Instead of making a puppet navy, make the Iranian and Pakistani Navy strong enough to be responsible for the most of the time in their area while PLAN can regularly visit their ports and cruise the region without making a Chinese base.

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The reason why historically, nations have avoided strengthening so much other (non-vassal) countries' navy/army is that they then start becoming emboldened to control their region if they are military superior.

I think bases is the most safe option even if its more expensive. That way you don't strengthen other countries which might come to bite you back in the future. Now where the bases should be, that's another question

tphuang said:

I'm actually quite uncomfortable about the idea of China providing maritime security blanket for other countries far away from its home base. It's not even possible to do so before it has nuclear submarines

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At some point someone needs to protect maritime trade lanes. You can't just leave them alone because that way other people start getting dangerous thoughts about them and the risk of accidents will start raising

Panic in the west and Israel.

tphuang said:

so if I get this, Iran is looking for China to protect it against America. Seems like a big commitment for China to make

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Yes, that's how it works when smaller countries want to work with bigger countries. The superpower provides security, the middle powers offer their markets in return. That's the Euroatlantic model. When America intervened in Korea that was also a big commitment, but they gained a client state.

The only question is if China is ready and what it can get in return. Putting bases there might be too much. But escorting commercial ships through piracy infested waters could work. Putting Chinese flags on tankers would make them safe as well and make Chinese shipping regulations more international. The American pirates of the 5th fleet are based in Bahrain, but they don't have bases in the rest of the Eastern Indian Ocean. So an escort through the Persian gulf would be enough. Initially this could only apply to shipments bound for or coming from China