Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) and Global South strategic cooperation

vincent said:

Not necessarily if the bonds are tie to money generating projects like lithium mines.

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If they are tied to money generating projects then they would have already done the bonds with USD years ago. Why wait until now?

Of course if that's true, Argentine will find plenty of people willing to give it money

vincent said:

At the end of the day People’s Bank of China can create RMB out of thin air and give them to other countries. The Chinese government can use the money to build up other countries’ economies and strengthen China’s relationship with them while keeping Chinese people employed.

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You are falling into the US trap of money printing I think. Yes, money printing in the way you described would be useful. But the problem is how can China ensure that they are actually building their country and not just messing around?

Infrastructure funding is useful but Argentine's biggest economic problems are ultimately policy driven. China with its "no interference in domestic affairs" policy can't affect that

The only thing it can do is to ensure that the RMB Argentine gets from China (currency swap deal) are used in a good way. Nuclear reactors, electricity generation, ports and railways development/modernisation, digital development

Overbom said:

If they are tied to money generating projects then they would have already done the bonds with USD years ago. Why wait until now?

Of course if that's true, Argentine will find plenty of people willing to give it money

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The difference is outside investors wants to own the mines and the Argentinian government will only get a small cut of the profit. If the Argentinian government issued bonds to finance the mines, it will get a much bigger portion of the profits.

Overbom said:

You are falling into the US trap of money printing I think. Yes, money printing in the way you described would be useful. But the problem is how can China ensure that they are actually building their country and not just messing around?

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Not the same since the Chinese government is not creating fiat money for consumption.

Overbom said:

Infrastructure funding is useful but Argentine's biggest economic problems are ultimately policy driven. China with its "no interference in domestic affairs" policy can't affect that

The only thing it can do is to ensure that the RMB Argentine gets from China (currency swap deal) are used in a good way. Nuclear reactors, electricity generation, ports and railways development/modernisation, digital development

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In China local governments create special corporations for infrastructure and other projects and issued bonds under those corporations. Other countries can do the same. Just need to ensure the money aren’t diverted to something else or get taken by corrupt officials.

vincent said:

At the end of the day People’s Bank of China can create RMB out of thin air and give them to other countries. The Chinese government can use the money to build up other countries’ economies and strengthen China’s relationship with them while keeping Chinese people employed.

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Yes, that's the same as just spending the USD reserves. But when dealing with a country like Argentina it's best to acquire some assets. There are more competent countries to support.

so basically we have a situation where countries like Argentina don't want to go beg for money from IMF, so they are coming to China or BRICS NDB in general. So you lend them money in RMB instead of USD or you do currency swaps (America has its own currency swap lines). Some of that RMB invoicing would also lead you to buy Argentinian products in RMB. At this rate, 70% of export to Argentina is in RMB, so they should be pay Argentinian products in RMB also. Using CIPS is also important.

But I think Peru is a good example of China getting involved in certain major industries. China is likely to acquire hard assets in Argentina in exchange. We will just have to see what those are.

tphuang said:

so basically we have a situation where countries like Argentina don't want to go beg for money from IMF, so they are coming to China or BRICS NDB in general. So you lend them money in RMB instead of USD or you do currency swaps (America has its own currency swap lines). Some of that RMB invoicing would also lead you to buy Argentinian products in RMB. At this rate, 70% of export to Argentina is in RMB, so they should be pay Argentinian products in RMB also. Using CIPS is also important.

But I think Peru is a good example of China getting involved in certain major industries. China is likely to acquire hard assets in Argentina in exchange. We will just have to see what those are.

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Get ready for the Westoids to call this an another "Chinese debt trap" even though what they do is also the same.

vincent said:

Not necessarily if the bonds are tie to money generating projects like lithium mines.
I’m not familiar with Argentina’s issues. Before 2002 Argentina’s peso was pegged to USD. My understanding is the government kept the peg for too long and didn’t let the peso to float (devalued). It was forced to let go of the peg and caused huge problems with the economy. Financial vultures from the West also made things much worst.


At the end of the day People’s Bank of China can create RMB out of thin air and give them to other countries. The Chinese government can use the money to build up other countries’ economies and strengthen China’s relationship with them while keeping Chinese people employed.

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That’s literally the worst thing that can happen to China barring it actually undergoing colored revolution and dissolving.

it seems like China likes to get into other ocuntries' power sector, that's why I suggested it with Argentina. Given the future is in renewable energy, it gives China an opportunity to export more clean energy products

For example, China built up Pakistan's entire energy sector

And to use Thailand as an example for Argentina
you have another case here of a country concerned about USD reserves and want to trade in RMB and THB instead. So they will need now to have RMB reserves to do that. And this opens up leverage. With the delivery of 071E, RTN is more accepting of engine replacement for those submarines. Again, I'm sure having leverage over Thailand in economic/currency issues can lead to desirable outcomes in other areas.

That's what I mean earlier with Argentina

In other news, America not happy about the Syrian situation

and it believes "naval base" construction has restarted at UAE
I think the general direction of UAE is pretty set and certain at this point.

Saw this on weibo. I hope it clears things up a little bit

你不懂，货币互换是指到时候还各自一样多的本币，我们到时候还他们是比索，极度夸张情况下他们为0，我们相当于不用还也可以，但他们人民币是需要还的。

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So currency swap allows Argentina in this case to get CNH, but it will still need to return that CNH at some point down the line, so China will not be stuck with just pesos in the even that Pesos plunge to no value.

但经济增长还行，和土耳其一样，就是通胀高，经济也发展。

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On the whole, China is working with Argentina because it believes economy will continue to grow despite the high inflations.

on side note, looks like this could be a good thing

The resource base for lithium in Russia, after calculation of profitable reserves, could be increased from 5 million tonnes to 114 million tonnes of LCE, Vygon said. The company's experts believe the most promising way to produce the metal is to extract it from brine at previously drilled oil and gas wells. This would save on capital expenditures thanks to developed infrastructure. Vygon estimated the potential reserves in Russia at 108 million tonnes of LCE.

Russia could be producing 250,000 to 600,000 tonnes of LCE annually by 2040, which would amount to 15% of potential global demand, Vygon said. The company's optimistic scenario sees Russian producers earning about $20 billion annually

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I'm sure China would be jumping at importing this and refining this. should have a goal of making future lithium carbonate trading at Dalian the main lithium trading center

Maybe the China/Pakistan railway will happen. will have to wait and see on this

China continuing to invest in Hungary. Big logistics center in Budapest

China continuing to have more trades in Central Asia and they will meet in Xi'an later this yr. up to $70B in trade

if you look at this, a lot of trade here to central asian countries Azerbaijian and Armenia.

Hellenic Shipping News.

Chinese and Greek officials and business representatives explored ways of boosting bilateral cooperation on shipping and trade during an investment event held at Piraeus port.

The event was organized by Shanghai’s Pilot Free Trade Zone Lingang Special Area at the premises of Piraeus Port Authority S.A. (PPA), a member of China’s COSCO Shipping group.

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Manolis Koutoulakis, Secretary General of the Greek Ministry of Maritime Affairs and Insular Policy, said Greece and China have already had an important experience here in Piraeus and both sides have mutual interests in widening those relations.

Meanwhile, Mayor of Pireaus Yiannis Moralis said: “COSCO’s investments in recent years in the development and modernization of the port of Piraeus have undoubtedly further strengthened its position on the world map of maritime, tourism and commerce… Let us continue the good cooperation we have in the coming years.”

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Speculating freely: Since , why not Odessa next?