Russian Su-57 Aircraft Thread (PAK-FA and IAF FGFA)

[b787]

The best Mig-21 version is flown by India.

The Su-30MKI was inducted first in India, followed by a better version, Su-30SM, by Russia. However, IAF is incorporating 5th gen technologies into the Su-30MKI through MLUs to make it better than the Su-30SM by a large margin. And Russia will initiate MLUs to make an even better version of the Su-30SM at a later date. By then, IAF will be phasing out the Su-30MKI.

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that i inaccurate the best Russian fighter when you got MiG-21s was MiG-31, when you got Su-30MKIs Russia had S-47, Su-37s and the best Flanker is not Su-30MKI, in attack is Su-34 and in air superiority is Su-35S, Russia always keeps their best weapons for their own, all great powers do the same

 

[A Bar Brother]

that i inaccurate the best Russian fighter when you got MiG-21s was MiG-31, when you got Su-30MKIs Russia had S-47, Su-37s and the best Flanker is not Su-30MKI, in attack is Su-34 and in air superiority is Su-35S, Russia always keeps their best weapons for their own, all great powers do the same

Even the Mig-25 didn't exist when the Mig-21 was introduced in India. And I wasn't talking about the Soviet Union, I was talking about Russia.

Su-35BM came years after the MKI was introduced, a decade. So when IAF chose the Su-30MKI, there was no Su-35. Su-35 was offered to India in 2008 and was rejected by the IAF.

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Su-34 is not needed in India, we have need for multirole aircraft. There is no scope for a dedicated strike aircraft in the IAF anymore. UCAVs will fulfill the need.

Su-47 was just an experimental aircraft, as was the Su-37. The technologies developed through Su-37 were later introduced in the MKI.

You are going against history if you believe IAF deals with Russia for second-rate stuff. It was India who paid for the development of the Mig-29K, which Russia is now further improving for the VMF Rossii. The Mig-35 was also developed for India, which now the Russians are further developing for the VVS.

 

[b787]

Even the Mig-25 didn't exist when the Mig-21 was introduced in India. And I wasn't talking about the Soviet Union, I was talking about Russia.

Su-35BM came years after the MKI was introduced, a decade. So when IAF chose the Su-30MKI, there was no Su-35. Su-35 was offered to India in 2008 and was rejected by the IAF.

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Su-34 is not needed in India, we have need for multirole aircraft. There is no scope for a dedicated strike aircraft in the IAF anymore. UCAVs will fulfill the need.

Su-47 was just an experimental aircraft, as was the Su-37. The technologies developed through Su-37 were later introduced in the MKI.

You are going against history if you believe IAF deals with Russia for second-rate stuff. It was India who paid for the development of the Mig-29K, which Russia is now further improving for the VMF Rossii. The Mig-35 was also developed for India, which now the Russians are further developing for the VVS.

The first Su-30MKIs were Russian made you started making them in 2004, by 2008 Russia flew the Su-35S, so when you started to deliver the first Su-30MKIs Russia flew the supercruising capable Su-35S and had a few Su-35 and Su-37s and had the first al-41 test flown on the MiG1.44

When you started building MiG-27 Russia was flying already MiG-29M and when you built your first MiG-21, Russia had already flown MiG-25 and had Tu-128 and Su-11s

 

[A Bar Brother]

The first Su-30MKIs were Russian made you started making them in 2004, by 2008 Russia flew the Su-35S, so when you started to deliver the first Su-30MKIs Russia flew the supercruising capable Su-35S and had a few Su-35 and Su-37s and had the first al-41 test flown on the MiG1.44

The Su-30MKI achieved IOC in 2002. The Su-35BM achieved IOC in 2012. The first flight of the Su-30MKI happened in 1997. The first flight of the Su-35BM was in 2008. So you are widely off the mark. The first deliveries of the Su-30MKI happened 6 years before the Su-35BM had first flight. Until 2012, the Su-30MKI family was the most advanced aircraft ever built in Russia, with 350 of them flying by the time the first Su-35BM was delivered. After the Super Sukhoi MLU, the Su-30MKI will continue to hold pole position in the Flanker family.

Su-35 (old version), Su-37, AL-41F and Mig-1.44 were all experimental articles. Even the Russians never inducted them. So your point is moot.

When you started building MiG-27 Russia was flying already MiG-29M and when you built your first MiG-21, Russia had already flown MiG-25 and had Tu-128 and Su-11s

You are confusing the Soviet Union with Russia. It is well known that the Soviet Union only exported monkey models.

Anyway, we are completely off topic, so before the mods come in, I want to say this is my last post.

 

[Air Force Brat]

The Su-30MKI achieved IOC in 2002. The Su-35BM achieved IOC in 2012. The first flight of the Su-30MKI happened in 1997. The first flight of the Su-35BM was in 2008. So you are widely off the mark. The first deliveries of the Su-30MKI happened 6 years before the Su-35BM had first flight. Until 2012, the Su-30MKI family was the most advanced aircraft ever built in Russia, with 350 of them flying by the time the first Su-35BM was delivered. After the Super Sukhoi MLU, the Su-30MKI will continue to hold pole position in the Flanker family.

Su-35 (old version), Su-37, AL-41F and Mig-1.44 were all experimental articles. Even the Russians never inducted them. So your point is moot.



You are confusing the Soviet Union with Russia. It is well known that the Soviet Union only exported monkey models.

Anyway, we are completely off topic, so before the mods come in, I want to say this is my last post.

Gentlemen, you've both missed Deino's point, which is that many of the Russian sources deliberately mislead and misstate in order to make things appear much better than they actually are or will be??? but lets get back to PAK-FA shall we, and this little Soviet/Russian history lesson should go in its own thread? thank you gents. brat

sorry bar bro, I did not see your OT warning until after I had posted? my apologies

 

[Zool]

To be honest i am not more than a fanboy, however i read the Russian aerospace news on the daily basis from sources like Rostec, Sukhoi, RIA, Interfax, the Russian ministry of defense webportal and several Russian aviation forums.

My opinion and i say from a fanboy, who has no more than TV zvezda or yourtube as main video sources is that T-50 will have 3 main variants in the next 5 years, the one to be build in 2016 is not the final version but the interim version, by 2020 they probably will switch to a more powerful version with the new engine and perhaps a more advance AESA radar based upon the tech of the one used for MiG-35, the Indian version will be a customized version but still will keep some secrets from the Indians like radar and engine tech, that is the reason in my opinion they want Rafale tech to suplement whatever technology is not being shared by Russia.

Russian Government & MIC has been surprisingly open about it's modernisation plans the last few years, listing annual induction numbers for new build aircraft and it's progress in Naval construction for new and refurbished hulls. I have not seen any specifics on the T-50 however, other than the reports of planned serial manufacture and delivery next year, so I thought I would ask.

Another way to track a military program is to 'follow the money'. Here too I have not been able to find information on budgeting for deliveries of serial T-50 aircraft next year; although it may be still early yet for government reporting on that. Forecasting from component suppliers can be a helpful guide as well but again in this case I can't find anything solid. If you happen to see something like this be sure to keep us posted!

The airframe, i have no idea if that is the final configuration and to be honest i do not know how much the smart skin will help PAKFA to detect stealth fighters and still keep it concealed from the enemy radars but in terms of speed and maneuverability PAKFA will be very difficult to be downed because it is supposed to supercruise at Mach 1.8 and fly at a max speed of 2600 km/h or even slightly more.

The only doubt i have is what performance gains the new engine will give it.

For serial production and delivery of aircraft next year, I can't see the airframe changing significantly from where it is in the current prototype design. If deliveries are indeed to begin next year with significant changes to come afterwards, the build rate I imagine would be relatively low. In the area of 12 - 16 aircraft per year (16 annual being achieved after the first year or two's ramp up process)? We should know more fairly soon if this is to begin in 2016.

 

[tphuang]

i think you do not understand what i meant.

I think Russia needs a light weight fighter for two reasons
A)The export market for this type of aircraft is a source of revenue to the export oriented Russian military industry

B)the main Russian military exports are aircraft and T-50 is an aircraft with a very limited market

The type 30 engine is in the class of the F135 used on F-35, so once they have that engine flying the possibility of building a supercruising light weight fighter is there.

The most built jet fighters are single engined, F-16, MiG-21, MiG-23, therefore for Russia in order to remain an industrial power and specifically an aerospace power exports are needed .

I think that isthe way a light weight fighter will built, further more the development period of such fighter is around 6 years to have a prototype and around 10 to 15 to deploy it.
so a time frame of 2020 to have a prototype is not out of reach perhaps a 2023 is logic

The PAKDA in fact is more a luxury because this type of aircraft are not export oriented, now the heavy weight fighter is more difficult to build because these will be for Russia and are designed to fill the gaps S-500 can not fill.

For the Russian defense they need S-500s and a heavy weight fighter to down cruise missiles and stealth bombers to protect their own nuclear weapons thus they have a need.

I think what we are saying is that you are far too optimistic about Russia's progress. Just because developing a single engined aircraft will keep Russia relevant in the export market, that does not mean it will happen. Please provide proof that there is such project actively funded by someone when you make these claims rather than just speculate when you make such claims in the future.

On a separate now, we are completely off topic now of arguing whether or not Russia supplies its best stuff to india. Please get back to PAKFA

 

[b787]

I think what we are saying is that you are far too optimistic about Russia's progress. Just because developing a single engined aircraft will keep Russia relevant in the export market, that does not mean it will happen. Please provide proof that there is such project actively funded by someone when you make these claims rather than just speculate when you make such claims in the future.

On a separate now, we are completely off topic now of arguing whether or not Russia supplies its best stuff to india. Please get back to PAKFA

I am niether optimistic or naive, those have been the official Russian statements, Russia has said they are developing 3 new programs, PAKDA the new Stealth aircraft, and the light weight fighter (it could be MiG-35 or a new design i have no idea how to confirm it)and a MiG-31 replacement, officials from the Russian aerospace have argued about the wisdom of only having PAKFA as the only export product, type 30 engine has to be test flown in 2017 now is in design.

The only thing you are suggesting me is do not believe them, it is not a matter of faith, it is a matter of time by 2020 we will know.

 

[b787]

Russian Government & MIC has been surprisingly open about it's modernisation plans the last few years, listing annual induction numbers for new build aircraft and it's progress in Naval construction for new and refurbished hulls. I have not seen any specifics on the T-50 however, other than the reports of planned serial manufacture and delivery next year, so I thought I would ask.

Another way to track a military program is to 'follow the money'. Here too I have not been able to find information on budgeting for deliveries of serial T-50 aircraft next year; although it may be still early yet for government reporting on that. Forecasting from component suppliers can be a helpful guide as well but again in this case I can't find anything solid. If you happen to see something like this be sure to keep us posted!



For serial production and delivery of aircraft next year, I can't see the airframe changing significantly from where it is in the current prototype design. If deliveries are indeed to begin next year with significant changes to come afterwards, the build rate I imagine would be relatively low. In the area of 12 - 16 aircraft per year (16 annual being achieved after the first year or two's ramp up process)? We should know more fairly soon if this is to begin in 2016.

they have said they will have 55 aircraft by 2020, a production rate of around 12 aircraft a year has been suggested, you have to wait at least one year or two to see the bort numbers and the final looks, but i agree i think they have frozen the airframe configuration, the round nacelles are much more streamlined but people say these are not stealthy enough, who knows, Russia says the Hymalaya smart skin will do part of the stealth job and the composites the other to keep it concealed, who knows only time will tell

 

[aksha]

could someone translate