Russian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Lethe said:

Russia still has four Soviet-era heavies: Pyotr Velikiy, Admiral Nakhimov, Varyag and Marshal Ustinov. Either of the latter two could be reassigned to the Black Sea Fleet if Russia still wants to maintain that kind of presence.

That said, even if Russia were to assign e.g. Marshal Ustinov as the new flagship of the Black Sea Fleet, it would not have the same symbolism as Moskva did prior to her sinking. Everyone would know, or at least think (which is much the same for the purposes of prestige) that this is just another big Soviet rustbucket that can easily be sunk by anyone who cares to take a shot at it. Indeed, that's going to be the image for all of the Soviet-era heavies going forward.

I'm not suggesting that Russia should retire these ships because they no longer strike fear into the hearts of their enemies. Obviously such decisions should be made according to a clear-eyed assessment of capabilities, vulnerabilities, costs and alternatives. But strictly in terms of the prestige of the Russian Navy, the loss of Moskva under these circumstances is a massive blow that the service will likely not recover from for a generation.

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Indeed. I have imagined that Russia could assign cruisers from the other fleets. But that would also mean depriving a cruiser from the other fleets. In the context of the high tensions with NATO today, it may not be too helpful to the other fleets.

Nevertheless, I do agree with your point that the sinking of Moskva have dealt a heavy blow to the once-feared image of those large Soviet-era cruisers in the Russian Navy. Now, instead of deterrence, NATO Naval planners might be emboldened to think that these Russian large cruisers are tinderboxes, which could be sunk with relative ease. Regardless if its actually true or not. It might weaken the overall non-nuclear deterrence effect of the Russian Navy in the near future.

The Russian Navy is in dire need of fleet modernization and replenishment of major surface vessels. Their sole aircraft carrier is out of action for a couple of years to come. They have just lost a Slava class cruiser. They have only 1 Kirov class operational, with another spending decades in the shipyard undergoing refit. Worse of all, Russia has no modern air defence destroyer or cruiser in 2022. If Russia is gonna be prideful and continue waiting for its domestic shipbuilders to deliver them, they are gonna have to wait decades more and spend billions of rubles more. Let's see if they can finally wake up from their erroneously low opinion of Chinese warships.

Richard Santos said:

I have to say the performance of the Russian military in this war call strongly to mind the blundering incompetence of the Soviet army that attempted to invade Finland in 1939, all the dissolute Russian army and navy that fought the Japanese doing the Russo Japanese war in 1904 to 1905

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if you look at objectively by modern standards. it is best performance expected by first rate military.
think over it. they occupying effectively 25% land area of Ukraine with less than 150k soldiers which need to resupplied in three directions.
they also have to protect thousands kms of land and sea borders when you include Belarus. they are creating solid country on the ground that will sustain later by far less military force.
none of other countries have successfully done border management of area already in control.

Sardaukar20 said:

The Russian Navy is in dire need of fleet modernization and replenishment of major surface vessels. Their sole aircraft carrier is out of action for a couple of years to come. They have just lost a Slava class cruiser. They have only 1 Kirov class operational, with another spending decades in the shipyard undergoing refit. Worse of all, Russia has no modern air defence destroyer or cruiser in 2022. If Russia is gonna be prideful and continue waiting for its domestic shipbuilders to deliver them, they are gonna have to wait decades more and spend billions of rubles more. Let's see if they can finally wake up from their erroneously poor regard of Chinese warships.

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Their most capable ship design is the Admiral Gorshkov class frigate. But they just do not have enough of them. One should enter service this year, and another one next year at best. It has basically naval S-350 air defense and decent anti-surface and anti-submarine warfare capabilities. There are further ships of this class on the pipeline but if history is any guide won't be in service any time soon.

The corvette program was seriously delayed and is seemingly picking up in speed more recently. But there are still questions about the effectiveness of some of the combat systems used there. Or supply of critical components.

The Udaloy "destroyers" were basically designed in Soviet times as anti-submarine warfare ships. The only ship which was upgraded recently, the Marshal Shaposhnikov, only got a limited anti-surface capability as a result. It looks like its air defense capabilities were not improved at all. They did not even bother upgrading to a more modern Tor variant. Think of it as a destroyer size ship with equivalent of Soviet era short range air defense. Pretty weak. More similar upgrades are being done.

The Sovremenny class destroyers are basically gone. I think there are still two of them left in service but might as well be none.

Only the Russian nuclear submarine program is in a decent shape but even there Russia has a severe lack of modern attack subs or attack subs period compared with the US.

Michaelsinodef said:

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At around 10 minutes Xi Yazhou talks about an experience he had boarding the 'newest' slava class ship (the Varyag, about 10ish years younger than the Moskva?), and well, his description is: "rust all around the gun (is what I think the translation is), some doors have their locks broken and instead uses some rope, there's some civilian airconditioner installed around the place, and it smells like the garbage hasn't been taken out".

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this comment is killing me 杀鸡儆猴，和鸡打的有来有回....my sides!

Sardaukar20 said:

Indeed. I have imagined that Russia could assign cruisers from the other fleets. But that would also mean depriving a cruiser from the other fleets. In the context of the high tensions with NATO today, it may not be too helpful to the other fleets.

Nevertheless, I do agree with your point that the sinking of Moskva have dealt a heavy blow to the once-feared image of those large Soviet-era cruisers in the Russian Navy. Now, instead of deterrence, NATO Naval planners might be emboldened to think that these Russian large cruisers are tinderboxes, which could be sunk with relative ease. Regardless if its actually true or not. It might weaken the overall non-nuclear deterrence effect of the Russian Navy in the near future.

The Russian Navy is in dire need of fleet modernization and replenishment of major surface vessels. Their sole aircraft carrier is out of action for a couple of years to come. They have just lost a Slava class cruiser. They have only 1 Kirov class operational, with another spending decades in the shipyard undergoing refit. Worse of all, Russia has no modern air defence destroyer or cruiser in 2022. If Russia is gonna be prideful and continue waiting for its domestic shipbuilders to deliver them, they are gonna have to wait decades more and spend billions of rubles more. Let's see if they can finally wake up from their erroneously low opinion of Chinese warships.

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Moskova didnot contribute much during first 50 days. so hardly any one will notice it rather the freed manpower will be more efficiently used. They certified there own engines after decades of investment. they are much going further in Marine engine. All kind of ships and systems will need to certified for Arctic conditions. it will be even more difficult than simply Mistral type deal.

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“Research work on creating digital twins of marine gas turbine engines is a unique project that is being implemented in Russia for the first time. The creation of a digital model is a significant technological step in the development of the UEC. The innovation will help minimize the cost of designing and manufacturing prototypes of new power plants, increase the reliability and competitiveness of Russian marine gas turbine engines,” says Kirill Pyatunin.

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pmc said:

Moskova didnot contribute much during first 50 days. so hardly any one will notice it rather the freed manpower will be more efficiently used. They certified there own engines after decades of investment. they are much going further in Marine engine. All kind of ships and systems will need to certified for Arctic conditions. it will be even more difficult than simply Mistral type deal.

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Freeing up manpower from the Moskva is a tragedy, not efficiency. Moskva was not useless, it was providing air defense cover and anti-ship deterrence for the other smaller Russian ships. Sure losing the Moskva will not have a massive impact on the conflict in Ukraine. But in the years to come, Russia has one less cruiser to face NATO.

Are you saying that Chinese shipbuilders cannot match the French shipbuilders for getting Arctic certification? Were you living under a rock? Or are you just racist? The Chinese have built icebreakers! Besides, what is stopping Russia from giving inputs to Chinese shipbuilders to meet their standards for Arctic certification?

Chinese shipbuilders have built ships to international Marine certification standards like Lloyd's Register, Bureau Veritas, etc. They have built icebreakers. They are more than capable of catering to Russian requirements.

Shipbuilding is much more flexible than you think. Even if Russia is not wholly satisfied. They could even ship over their own propulsion systems for installation in ships under construction in Chinese shipyards. All Russia needs to do is to sort out the design changes with the Chinese shipyard beforehand. This is not an uncommon practice in international shipbuilding.

Sutton counts 240 crew. 45 officers.

For all the talk about China supplying XYZ to Russia or rebuilding XYZ for Russia, there has yet to be a single instance of that happening. The problem isn't with industry or brainpower but rather funding and general lack of professionalism/competence. The Russians aren't going to fare any better with a brand new 052D or Arleigh Burke if they are going to use it the same way they did with the Moskva.

pmc said:

Moskova didnot contribute much during first 50 days. so hardly any one will notice it rather the freed manpower will be more efficiently used. They certified there own engines after decades of investment. they are much going further in Marine engine. All kind of ships and systems will need to certified for Arctic conditions. it will be even more difficult than simply Mistral type deal.

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Russia has problems building the hulls. If they don't like the engines or systems China uses they're welcome to order the hulls and ask for a customization, even ship their own systems over to China for installation. China already builds ships for Arctic service.

SinoSoldier said:

For all the talk about China supplying XYZ to Russia or rebuilding XYZ for Russia, there has yet to be a single instance of that happening. The problem isn't with industry or brainpower but rather funding and general lack of professionalism/competence. The Russians aren't going to fare any better with a brand new 052D or Arleigh Burke if they are going to use it the same way they did with the Moskva.

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Russia has serious issues on basic military competencies. Even on basic things like military discipline, training, NCOs, logistics etc Russia is behind the curve. Then, there is also the military genious Putin who is planning wars from his sofa while reading the totally real reports from his intelligence agency that a certain neighboring country would collapse the moment they see the glorious Russian Army. And let's not forget the new addition for studying in military academies around the world, the "brother" war.

China can supply to Russia whatever it wants, but as long as Russia is plagued by such serious military deficiencies and delusional leaders, nothing is going to fundamentally change.