Russia Vs Georgia..a widening crisis!

SteelBird

Colonel
Re: Georgia Attacks South Ossetia, War With Russia Looms

Some source confirms that there were at least 3 Su-25 and 1 Tu-22. I am wondering, is the Georgian air defense very effective or the Russian aircraft too bad? The same thing did not happen to the US air force when they bomb Iraq and Yugoslavia.
 

Vlad Plasmius

Junior Member
Re: Georgia Attacks South Ossetia, War With Russia Looms

The U.S. typically starts out by going after air defense systems and air defense radars with stealth bombers and stealth fighter/bombers before sending in less stealthy aircraft. Interesting that you bring up Yugoslavia considering the U.S. actually lost an F-117 there, which is a lot worse than losing a non-stealthy bomber.
 

SteelBird

Colonel
Re: Georgia Attacks South Ossetia, War With Russia Looms

The US doctrine is correct: Removing enemy's air-defense system with missile and stealth bomber first then send non-stealthy aircraft in later. This lead to less casualty. In Yugoslavia the US lost one F-117, yeah, this is bad enough. But the whole war they lost only two aircrafts, with another being an F-16 (correct me if I'm wrong), while the Russian already lost 4 on the first 4 days of the war. Interesting, Tu-22 was offered to China in 2005, but was refused by China.

I just want to know, what kind of air-defense system does the Georgian have in their inventory? As far as I know they use Russian style weapon.
 
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Vlad Plasmius

Junior Member
Re: Georgia Attacks South Ossetia, War With Russia Looms

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is reporting that Russia has given a lit of demands of Georgia peace that include a demand for him to step down:

No one expected Georgia to be occupied that fast, not even Saakashvili, who, Georgian Kommersant sources say, has received an ultimatum from Moscow of three points in exchange for peace. The main point, in addition to capitulation and signing an agreement on the nonuse of force in Abkhazia and South Ossetia, is his resignation. During the day in Gori, the president was in good spirits and called what was going on idiocy. When asked by Kommersant when he thought it would all end, he replied with a calm smile, “Ask our neighbors.”

Not sure if you can trust Kommersant but there have been signals before that Russia wanted Saakashvili to resign, though before they said this was not a condition for peace.
 

SampanViking

The Capitalist
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Re: Georgia Attacks South Ossetia, War With Russia Looms

To put it perspective, Allied Aircraft Losses in Iraq in 1991 were significantly higher during the opening phase to achieve Air Supremacy.

If my memory serves me corrrectly, over 20 Coalition Aircraft were shot down.
 

Vlad Plasmius

Junior Member
Re: Georgia Attacks South Ossetia, War With Russia Looms

Gori hasn't yet been captured though some were saying it was. It does appear Russia may be manuevering to take the city of Gori though:

Several civilians were reported to have been injured as Russian jets bombed Gori on Tuesday, despite many residents fleeing the previous day.

Al Jazeera's Alan Fisher said that Russian forces had taken up positions on the hills around Gori as their aircraft bombed the the town about 30km outside separatist South Ossetia.

"This has been going on, at least as far as the bombing is concerned, for about two hours. Sustained attacks at regular intervals dropping about 10 bombs every time they attack the town," he said from the edge of Gori.

"It seems now they have stopped bombing the centre of the town and are now concentrating on Georgian army positions on the outside, but the fact that they are actually bombing Gori would suggest that the Russian army had actually moved into the town."

Source:
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Scyth

Junior Member
Re: Georgia Attacks South Ossetia, War With Russia Looms

another interesting article:

Georgia Strikes Back With Air Defenses

Aug 11, 2008

By David A. Fulghum and Douglas Barrie

If the land war in Georgia so far seems to be going decidedly in favor of the Russian army and navy, the Georgians seem to be racking up a lopsided score with their air defenses.

Over the weekend, the Russians made a successful advance on land through South Ossetia to the outskirts of the Georgian east-west transportation hub of Gori. There also was a one-sided naval battle - that resulted in the sinking of a Georgian gunboat - in the Black Sea off the coast of the second breakaway enclave of Abkhazia.

However, Georgian air defenses appear to be taking a steady toll on Russian aircraft. Russia has admitted to losing a total of four aircraft (the Georgians claim 10) in the conflict. So far they've admitted to the destruction of three Su-25 Frogfoot strike aircraft and a Tu-22M3 Backfire bomber that was flying a reconnaissance mission.

Photos from the combat area show the wreck of the Tu-22 and a Frogfoot as well as a picture of the Backfire pilot in a Georgian hospital. The pilot was Col. Igor Zinov, a 50 year-old Tu-22M3 instructor pilot stationed at the Russian Flight Test Center at Akhtubinsk. (See Aviation Week's defense photo gallery for photos.)

"Ergo, the Russians are using their A-Team, as expected," a U.S. analyst says.

Other analysts say the Georgians are probably operating the SA-11 Buk-M1 (low-to-high altitude) and the (low-to-medium altitude) Tor-1M mobile air defense missile systems.

"The Russians have gone to great lengths to try and implicate the Ukraine in the Russian Air Force losses, even going as far as to suggest that an SA-5 sold to the Georgians by the Ukraine was responsible for the Backfire loss," a second U.S. analyst says. "That's clearly not the case, but shows the Russian attempt to bring the Ukraine into the periphery of this event by implication, and to attempt to explain how one of their premier long-range attack assets could have been shot down so easily.

"The Russian press has been making lots of noise about the BUK and TOR systems, and I would say that the BUK is the most likely culprit for all of these aircraft losses," the analyst says. "If so, it points out a major flaw in the Russian plan - not gaining [and] maintaining pure air superiority [and] dominance over the battlespace by taking out the Georgian air defenses and air defense network before they went into the conflict."

Russian-built and designed air defenses are apparently exploitable, as was shown in the Israeli Air Force's total shut down of Syrian air defenses prior to bombing a suspected nuclear site. But Russia apparently has yet to apply the digital keys to unlock the Georgians' network.

During the months before the conflict, the Russians claimed to have shot down several Hermes 450 UAVs (made by Israeli-based Elbit) with fighter aircraft stationed at least temporarily in South Ossetia.

The Russians say they shot down a Georgian Frogfoot outside the town of Eredvi in South Ossetia today. The Russians - in a stunning piece of irony - have twice bombed the Su-25 Frogfoot manufacturing plant on the outskirts of the Georgian capital of Tbilisi.

So if the Georgians over-estimated their ground forces, "it appears that the Russians underestimated the Georgian air defense abilities in this conflict, and have paid the price," the second U.S. analyst says.

Georgia's foreign minister, Eka Tkeshelashvili, and deputy interior minister, Eka Zguladze, will be in Brussels tomorrow for emergency talks at NATO headquarters. The two officials will meet with NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, and address the North Atlantic Council.
 

Vlad Plasmius

Junior Member
Re: Georgia Attacks South Ossetia, War With Russia Looms

Well, that was quick:

Georgia pulled out of the Kodori Gorge, the only part of Abkhazia where it had peacekeepers, Deputy Interior Minister Eka Zhguladze said by phone. The move comes as French President Nicolas Sarkozy flies to Moscow to push a cease-fire accord already signed by Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili.

``This is our goodwill gesture,'' Zhguladze said. ``As we've already said, we offered a cease-fire and the complete withdrawal of our troops.''

Source:
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flyzies

Junior Member
Re: Georgia Attacks South Ossetia, War With Russia Looms

^ "Goodwill"?? Yeah right! Probably didnt want to suffer another defeat and be humiliated further.
Mightve been the right move tho, no point wasting your soldiers lives over something you have no chance of winning.
 
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