Returning Turtles

bladerunner said:

If its the first paragraph its me having a rant, because to me you didn't have a problem with Rhino and Spartan coming to the conclusion, that after many visits, they wouldnt like to live/preferred home.

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To be clear, I don't have a problem with people preferring to live somewhere instead of somewhere else. I believe in my first post I've also stated I prefer Canada. I'll leave it at that lest we turn this into a flame war.

Mainly personal choice, involving opportunities lifestyle, political, etc

My point was that its no secret that China has been trying to attract the best back, but with disappointing results. Perhaps we should be asking why and offering constructive suggestions, over than above the usual IP,and the difficulty for private individuals to get decent funding for their business ideas

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I'm not sure we can say "with disappointing results". Most of my classmates from university who are international students will be returning to China to work or continue their graduate studies here. And it's not as if they don't have difficulties working here. My uni has a very extensive "co-op" program where it sends students off to companies of their field of study to get hands-on experience for a few terms, for them to have an extra edge when they graduate. A lot of the international students can't take advantage of this program because of visa problems. I feel bad for the poor bastards, spending twice to thrice the normal tuition and they don't get the whole package, or student council representation for that matter. Needless to say the disappointment with the system shared by international students.

I think the answer to this wider-ranging problem though, lies in some of the posts on this topic. Some say pollution is a problem. Some say the competition for jobs in China is too great. Some prefer to live somewhere with convenient access to the great outdoors. Some say language barrier is a problem. Some of these problems the government can help alleviate, such as air pollution or jobs. But ultimately, the deciding factor lies in the individual's preference. I don't think we can just dump everything on "China has IP problems" or "it's hard to get loans". Nobody on this board said anything about IP when they considered the question posed on this topic. As you stated yourself, whether a person chooses to move back to China to live or work depends on the personal choice.

Obcession said:

I'm not sure we can say "with disappointing results". Most of my classmates from university who are international students will be returning to China to work or continue their graduate studies here. And it's not as if they don't have difficulties working here. My uni has a very extensive "co-op" program where it sends students off to companies of their field of study to get hands-on experience for a few terms, for them to have an extra edge when they graduate. A lot of the international students can't take advantage of this program because of visa problems. I feel bad for the poor bastards, spending twice to thrice the normal tuition and they don't get the whole package, or student council representation for that matter. Needless to say the disappointment with the system shared by international students.

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I think 600hrs of practical work as part of any engineering degree is required, over here hence no problem with a work permit, however many find it tough to find jobs and they go back home to do their practical, during the summer holidays.

the con for international students is that they are enticed with the promise of permanenent residency, if they can find a placement within 18 months of grad. However they encounter difficulty with, prospective employers cant be bothered with the paperwork involved, so they tend to be passed over as work candidates

Nobody on this board said anything about IP when they considered the question posed on this topic. As you stated yourself, whether a person chooses to move back to China to live or work depends on the personal choice.

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NO one did pose the question of IP in this thread however I stand to be corrected on this but "Vesicles" a research scientist, in another thread may have mentioned it as a reason for his possible reluctance to return to China to work,

SampanViking said:

However as BD Popeye would say "Stay on Topic - Stay on Topic" as this is a thread about people who have or who want to move to China and the practical problems they fear or actually face.

Lets not allow a simple and strait forward thread be diverted to sad and tired old ground.

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Travel Jetlag and a earthquake have finally got to me.

At the start I had this thought that you wanted to know the thought processes of theoffspring of 48mill ? overseas Chinese journeying back to China to find their roots. sorta like in the days of old and to a slight extent nowKiwis during their OE back in the UK or British school leavers in their gap year

I'll give you 2 more (Cantonese) terms as a ABC, though I don't know them on paper, not correctly at least:
土主(not sure if it is 主?) - Natives of the land/countries you are in, what an older "FOB" would sometimes call an ABC here in the US.

竹("星") (the name of the bamboo's hollow sections) - another nickname to ABCs, as we supposively couldn't really fit in with Chinese, nor completely with the Americans.

(And please don't assume all ABCs are "bananas"!)
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The short answer: I don't plan to work in China, but I won't turn down an offer either if one came.

I was born in mountainous New England, but did started school in Hong Kong, and I still frequently visit Guangdong (including HK). (Note: I know not much about the rest of China culturally and I would hesitant to treat China as one here, particularly because of what Obcession said and because my Mandarin isn't the best.)

I love Guangdong. While the air isn't the best, I love the atmosphere. I feel a homely warmth when I am in Guangzhou and I am not stuck at home in either city at night because everything has closed. Hong Kong's energy is nice and engaging also.
And I feel right at home also. I know both cities as well as SF (and don't complain about their weather unless you've been here!) and I never have to struggle with finding a restaurant nearby; my current neighbourhood has literally nothing but houses and to get anything we have to drive.

The problem with working in China for me is that AFAIK bosses in China love to work their workers to death. Chinese engineers are also well known in both quality and quantity and I doubt I have a good chance at winning the prospective boss over. (What xywdx said about bachelors I've never heard about, though given the standards of universities in China these days I would not be surprised.) My lack of proficiency in Mandarin is also a big disadvantage for anything going outside the province. I am also disturbed by the quality of dwellings in China.

And I do not want to get Chinese citizenship, because I don't want to lose my US citizenship and shoot my foot for a Canadian one.

If anything I think I would work as a translator, if the boss cares to actually give quality translations. English in China is so horrible you just want to hide your face and sneak away whenever you see a hotel clerk collapse in the face of Street English from a foreigner. And let's not mention the disappointing signs like "Aware of self to support the public hygiene, and please throw into the garbage can inside the garbage."
狗屁不通......
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About immigration/emigration: many people who recently came to the US applied for immigration years ago. Meanwhile many of them have become richer and most actually thought the whole ordeal was a waste and would probably never want to come back again!

It seems that I am one of them that wanted to migrate back to HK to look for career opportunity. However Hong Kong have changed to a commission based or sales based employment. This is kind of biggest obstacle to me. Working in canadian consulate in HK was one the jobs that I thought was good as a starter to stay there, but how do you get in?

also I want to state is international student are kind of different from immigration.

SampanViking said:

Modern China is a huge global trading nation and so of course many of its citizens go abroad, to destinations all over the world, each year to build this trade and development network.

Likewise many people in poorer countries are now keen to enter China and work their legally or otherwise.

These numbers though; in the Chinese context, still remain largely insignificant.

However as BD Popeye would say "Stay on Topic - Stay on Topic" as this is a thread about people who have or who want to move to China and the practical problems they fear or actually face.

Lets not allow a simple and strait forward thread be diverted to sad and tired old ground.

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Agreed with you here...

After dealing with so many Chinese in my course of work... I do find them pretty interesting. Some are bad... plain bad... some are fantastic... I have many stories to tell (both good and bad) but not going to bored the live out of everyone here.

The bottomline is, when you wanted to venture into China, be it opening a shop, a factory, the best thing and way is to go there yourselves and watched over your business tightly. Do not trust any third member and leave your entire business to him or her without being there physically.

And if you wanted to live and work there, maybe you should go to HongKong first and established yourselves (at least get acquainted and used to the life in HK) first, then slowly move to Shenzhen and the such... Oh btw, I just completed a short course on taxation in China... and man... I tell you, the CHinese had very complicated tax system in the country...

But whatever the choice... be it you wanted to live in CHina permanently or not, the most important thing is to observe Human Relationship.

Good luck with your choice.:china:

bladerunner said:

Im not implying anything of the sort, and I dont think one can really compare foreign public companies with shareholders money from a public offering or something, to a young couple with personal savings and a loan from their respective parents. nor does it have anything to do with being smarter or dumber than the next person but perhaps a bit of relief that one made the right call. Perhaps you might want to put a million or so up in a startup in China, and examine your thought processes.......

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Who told you investments into China only consists of public companies with tons of money ? Plenty of small private businesses go there and succeeds, so don't spend too much time thinking of excuses for your friend's lack of success there.
Good for your friend if he can comfort himself in thinking he made the right choice in delaying his entrance into China. If the business plan was sound, he may actually have missed the boat when he hesitated as others may have moved in by now. Of course if the plan is bad to begin with it wouldn't have made much difference whether he went in earlier or later.

bladerunner said:

Travel Jetlag and a earthquake have finally got to me.

At the start I had this thought that you wanted to know the thought processes of theoffspring of 48mill ? overseas Chinese journeying back to China to find their roots. sorta like in the days of old and to a slight extent nowKiwis during their OE back in the UK or British school leavers in their gap year

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48 Million! I think that would be putting words in the mouth of many people. No this is about people to discuss their own personal experiences and concerns.

Were you in or close to the Earthquake zone this morning?

I would share alittle bit of my own experience as a "sea turtle" who chose to return to the motherland.

I am the 3rd generation overseas chinese born in Indonesia. I have lived in four different countries and still is a citizen of Canada. I agree with most of you regarding living and working condition here; smog, crowd, trafic jam, rude people. Rescently I have to manage my assistants who are underperforming and came to the realization of the imperfect education system here. I used to live in vancouver and its like paradise on earth there.

So why the hell would I leave a paradise and go to a stinky hell hole? Because I am sick of being a minority and treated like one for the rest of my life and I am sick of the bullying I see everyday at the western media. China is not perfect, but guesss what? It does not matter what passport or language I speak, I am always labelled as Chinese by the world because I look like one. So why not improve China to improve my own image. Sounds reasonable to me since I am on the same boat with the other 1.3 billion chinese no matter what. Perhaps if China is strong and respected, an incident like 1950s-1960s and 1998 in Indonesia will not happen and perhaps people would put more value to chinese lives intead of the handful of tibetan that is killed in the 2008 clash. I guess I feel alittle different than most of you since I have personally expereince genocide culturally and physically. It is in my best interest to see China strong for the sake of 1.3 billion people and myself. It is as simple as that.

Now have lived in shanghai for more than 7 years and counting. My wife is chinese citizen and all my kids will learn mandarin as their first language. I will raise them to be a patriot, learn chinese values and not get bullied because of race and things that they are born with. I am working in the chinese animation Industry and I will help China to innovate the entertainment industry and project its culture world wide. I want the world to see the good of chinese culture instead of just kung-fu, chinese food and communism.

This is who I am.

SampanViking said:

48 Million! I think that would be putting words in the mouth of many people. No this is about people to discuss their own personal experiences and concerns.

Were you in or close to the Earthquake zone this morning?

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Close? man i was right at the epicentre. Darfield. We had left our car at our friends farm after driving up from Queenstown. Stayed there when we got back with the intention of a leisurely drive back to QT. on Sat morn.

Tobad I was still feeling the jetlag on FRI night, otherwise I might have indulged in a bit of canoodling with the Mrs, and the ground would really have been moving for her

My friends got this San Adreas look alikewith this ground rupture running along a good part of his farm before going through onto neighbouring properties. Its about 1 > 1.5m wide at places. the experts called it a slip fault or something.

So how about starting a donation for the ex colonialists hunh a few bill will help us reduce our trade deficit with China.