Returning Turtles

Obcession

Junior Member
Originally Posted by rhino123
There was a time when I frequent China a couple of times a year (not anymore now) for work purposes. My stay there was kind of short though... with a maximum of 14 days per trip. And we went there because just before we give any contract to a vendor... they would promise us sky and heaven.

However when we give them something to do... always towards the end of the scheduled time that they are suppose to deliver... something must slip. This is kind of irritating as we have to go there often to straighten up the stuff. Plus... when we are there... things seemed to flow more smoothly... but once we came back to our country... it became problematic again.

Sometime I feel that it is their attitude and not their skill or hardware that is the problem. So as you can see, handling the Chinese is really not an easy thing to do... I too have vendors in Malaysia, doing the same thing as vendors in China. So far those in Malaysia give us things as promised in the contract with minimum or no hiccups at all.

But I do agreed with Seigecrossbow in his assessment of Chinese engineers. They are REALLY good. I have a group of electronic and software designers in Singapore, and whatever given to them... they fail quite miserably... maybe they are not really gear to do things at today's extremely short timeframe and tight schedule. However when I gave almost the same design to my Shanghai and Hefei's team of designers, they could come out with the design in the given time and with minimal hiccups... well... I am very, very impress.

Paul Midler aludes to that sort of thing in his book "Poorly made in China"

Notice how bladerunner bolded the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs but not the 4th?

I'm schooling as a Civil Engineer in Canada, where I've lived for half of my life. Haven't really thought about going back to China to work though. Even if I was to go back, I would start working here in Canada first, to gain some experience that would make me more valued in China. With so much demand for civil engineers coming from all the construction going around, I shouldn't have a hard time finding a job there. That being said, I still like where I am now, and being able to drive an hour to hike in the Rockies on weekends.
 

RedMercury

Junior Member
I am really keen to be in touch with Chinese who are ... well .. just "totally" in China. (I hope you get what I am trying to say) !!!!!
The ones that are fluent enough in English to post here don't last long. Either they are banned in a few days for breaking rules or just disappear after awhile because other posters jump all over what they say and they can't respond well enough with a language crutch. If you really want to interact with mainland Chinese, learn the language and visit main land forums. You'll probably last about as long...
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
You guys put those bananas and my stupid misconceptions to shame :D!

I dont know why you think bananas should be ashamed. Whats with this Bull Sh-t about wanting to do or feeling obliged to something for motherland.? You seem to forget that millions of overseas Chinese have no time for the CCP.

Many people have come to the Americas from Europe, to flee persecution from home, in fact America was founded upon those settlers who came across on the "Mayflower" and I guess, many from China in the later centuries did the same thing of which many are prepared to turn their back on the old world.
By turning their back on the old world.

Meanwhile Ive just got back from China yesterday, and nothing I saw their would make me want to live there.
 
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Obcession

Junior Member
I dont know why you think bananas should be ashamed. Whats with this Bull Sh-t about wanting to do or feeling obliged to something for motherland.?

Many people have come to the Americas from Europe, to flee persecution from home, in fact America was founded upon those settlers who came across on the "Mayflower" and I guess, many from China in the later centuries did the same thing of which many are prepared to turn their back on the old world.
By turning their back on the old world.

Meanwhile Ive just got back from China yesterday, and nothing I saw their would make me want to live there.

That's your opinion. Others see opportunity, culture, vibrant cities, and warm-hearted people. Perhaps you were too blind to see it?
 

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
Actually I have quite abit of interaction with the Chinese. Many of my colleagues came from China and are great people. However I find that many of them are quite defensive whenever we bring out topics on CHina.

They would immediately think that we are criticising China and themselves with the slightest comment made, and would argued with us till their veins came bulging. Plus I find quite a number of them resent their government and had been complaining that the officials are very corrupted... They applaud to cases whereby people was punished in China who came from rich and influencial background... they was even a case that I quite remember regarding a lady who fatally stabbed some official... and my Chinese colleagues applauded her and called her hero.

Well... something that was quite alien to me... no matter what, no one should stab someone fatally and still get away and was applauded as hero...

Plus I have this nagging feeling that average chinese engineers or peoples as a whole hated rich people... and they would jump at these people whenever they have the chance... So this led to a theory that I have been habouring quite awhile,

"When you are rich (in China), don't show it, act normal... then, when you get in trouble with the law, there will be plenty of supporters from the public and most probably you will get out alive and well. If you show your riches... once you get in trouble... people will want you dead."
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
I dont know why you think bananas should be ashamed. Whats with this Bull Sh-t about wanting to do or feeling obliged to something for motherland.?

Many people have come to the Americas from Europe, to flee persecution from home, in fact America was founded upon those settlers who came across on the "Mayflower" and I guess, many from China in the later centuries did the same thing of which many are prepared to turn their back on the old world.
By turning their back on the old world.

Meanwhile Ive just got back from China yesterday, and nothing I saw their would make me want to live there.

First of all I would like to say that I respect your opinion on the matter. Now time for what I think:

I don't think "shame" is really the best word to use against the "bananas". I personally just feel a bit sorry for them. There are people who brag that Chinese is going to be the "global" language but I scoff at the idea. Most Chinese children who go abroad at an early age (some as late as 8 to 9 years old) can't speak the language fluently and they expect it to become the "global" language. I just find it sad that the Chinese language/culture is as foreign to them as they are to any other Westerners.
 

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
Basically I have nothing against China. In actual fact, I love the country, her rich history. She is a country my ancestor... in fact, my mother came from. I am born in Singapore, but my mom is from China and father is from Malaysia, so effectively I am the first generation.:)

From my contact with the Chinese (during work and some of my relative still live in that country), I have can conclude that they treat human relationship of the utmost importance. Everything (you will be surprise at how much and what it ranged) depends entirely of human relationship. That is one reason when I was there, I make it a point to buy some small little gifts to give all of the engineers that are working on my project. This gifts doesn't need to be excessively expensive, just something from overseas and that is enough. When these peoples felt that they are being appreciated, I find that they will work harder for us.

Another thing I noticed about the Chinese, especially those that have not came out from China before (no offense intented), they have this habit of putting everything down. I remember my family sponsoring some of our relatives to visit Singapore. The visit coincide with the the open day where we can visit the place where our president reside and work.

I remember seeing one of the Chinese who had never step foot out of China before, and was sponsored to come for a visit by his relative in China and he and my relatives came from the same village, so we have a short chat.

That fella was commenting that our president's garden is actually inferior comparing to the piece of grassland outside the village. And mind you... that grassland was actually a place full of weeds and was absolutely not scenic at all.

Plus my relatives had been complaining about everything in singapore, putting down everything of our country and praising his village till it was like one that was make in heaven.

Well... just an observation.
 

HenryGuyton

Just Hatched
Registered Member
There seem to be a ever greater number of young Chinese; born and raised in the West; that are keen to return to China and to explore opportunity and a permanent future in the country.

Such people are called "Returning Sea Turtles" or just "Returning Turtles" and this process; fuelled by double digit growth in the PRC and relative stagnation in the West, seems only likely to accelerate.

Are any of you guys thinking about doing this or have you actually done it? If so what are the problems and obstacles you have or worry about encountering?

Is it just a dream for you or a plan you want to turn to reality?

I am very interested in hearing what you think or have experienced.

I have a few friends and neighbor that happens to be Chinese and they are friendly people. But I never have the chance to ask them if they want to go to China and work there. They've been my neighbor since 1990's. So its quite long, and I think, they will not migrate to China and leave their lives here.

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xywdx

Junior Member
There was a time when I frequent China a couple of times a year (not anymore now) for work purposes. My stay there was kind of short though... with a maximum of 14 days per trip. And we went there because just before we give any contract to a vendor... they would promise us sky and heaven.

However when we give them something to do... always towards the end of the scheduled time that they are suppose to deliver... something must slip. This is kind of irritating as we have to go there often to straighten up the stuff. Plus... when we are there... things seemed to flow more smoothly... but once we came back to our country... it became problematic again.

Sometime I feel that it is their attitude and not their skill or hardware that is the problem. So as you can see, handling the Chinese is really not an easy thing to do... I too have vendors in Malaysia, doing the same thing as vendors in China. So far those in Malaysia give us things as promised in the contract with minimum or no hiccups at all.

But I do agreed with Seigecrossbow in his assessment of Chinese engineers. They are REALLY good. I have a group of electronic and software designers in Singapore, and whatever given to them... they fail quite miserably... maybe they are not really gear to do things at today's extremely short timeframe and tight schedule. However when I gave almost the same design to my Shanghai and Hefei's team of designers, they could come out with the design in the given time and with minimal hiccups... well... I am very, very impress.

Well said!
This is not only a problem for people outside of China, but for Chinese business men as well.
My family runs business in China and let me tell you, if you turn your eye away for a second things WILL screw up, it's extremely frustrating.
You need some capable family members or trusted employees to supervise almost every single detail, good workers are hard to find!

The bachelors generally have very underwhelming performance, it's almost sad to think what would happen to them without their family support.
However once you get to the masters and doctorates you can see a marked improvement, at least these people can do work right.
It has a lot to do with how their mentors overuse them for their own purposes, they generally get a lot of hands on experience because they do most of their mentor's work.
 
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