Returning Turtles

Quickie

Colonel
Another reason why the words "sea turtle" come into popular use could be that it accurately describes the behaviour of them. Sea turtles are known to return to their place of birth at the beaches - to lay eggs in the case of the turtles - after living for a time in the oceans. So, rather than something negative, it's (or was meant to be) just a case of clever word play to describe a certain behaviour. :D
 

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
Another reason why the words "sea turtle" come into popular use could be that it accurately describes the behaviour of them. Sea turtles are known to return to their place of birth at the beaches - to lay eggs in the case of the turtles - after living for a time in the oceans. So, rather than something negative, it's (or was meant to be) just a case of clever word play to describe a certain behaviour. :D

So... even if I am to go to China and made a home there, work and live there... I am not qualified as a Sea Turtle... Cos I am not born in China? Looks like I have to come out with a new term to describe oversea chinese like myself:roll:
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
So... even if I am to go to China and made a home there, work and live there... I am not qualified as a Sea Turtle... Cos I am not born in China? Looks like I have to come out with a new term to describe oversea chinese like myself:roll:

I think Chinese who are born overseas but returns still counts as sea turtles. Their roots are still in China where ever they go.
 

bingo

Junior Member
I was in Shenzhen working for 9 years in a factory owned by a New Jersey corp. The factory was later sold to Quebeto Canadian.

ABC, CBC, overseas Chineses, Hong Kong Chinese and whatever Chinese, can easily find good pay jobs in foreign owned campanies due to their multi language communication skills, international trade and work practice exposures. Most important is that the foreign boss tend to trust the integrity of non-mainland Chinese, especially those from Hong Kong, may be due to the low corruption in HK.

Local Chinese companies will pay rather low salaries, unless you possess a highly wanted skill that could not easily found in mainland China, do not expect special treatment because there are millions of fresh job seekers leaving college every year.

To return and apply for Chinese citizenship is not that difficult, especially if you still have relatives living in China. However, you have to give up your current country's citizenship.

I like China, especially the fast changing pace of development is simply fantastic, and you feel like you are part of it.

However, at the end I still like my home near a hiily area in Kuala Lumpur, a bit hot but quiet, fresh air, nice breeze lots of convinience. China is still a home to me though, I still like to go there for few months each year.

Actually, this corrected some misconception I developed in an earlier thread, where you wrote that you "were in China while accessing this forum".

I was actually looking for someone here, whose entire world view has been developed while living his (or her) entire life inside the Chinese mainland.
(i.e. never ever been to HK, or Kuala Lumpur or Singapore, leave alone the western countries).

These areas - HK, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur and the West have a markedly different level of freedom of press ..... a possibility, which a "fully inside Chinese" may not be able to appreciate.

So, is this forum, mostly about overseas chinese .... who have spent a greater % of their life outside China, than inside China ???
(and some others, who were born in China .... but now settled outside China)

I say so, because "fully inside Chinese" could have views which are completely different from overseas chinese ..... a key factor being no access to English language press (not only because of censorship, but because of lack of English language skills among common resident Chinese).

I am really keen to be in touch with Chinese who are ... well .. just "totally" in China. (I hope you get what I am trying to say) !!!!!
 

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
I am really keen to be in touch with Chinese who are ... well .. just "totally" in China. (I hope you get what I am trying to say) !!!!!

I agree that there is a lack of participation in this forum by average mainland Chinese. Probably because of the language barrier mostly. Is this website even accessible in mainland China? I imagine it could be blocked due to the national security related content and the diversity of political views here.
 

lcloo

Captain
Actually, this corrected some misconception I developed in an earlier thread, where you wrote that you "were in China while accessing this forum".

I was actually looking for someone here, whose entire world view has been developed while living his (or her) entire life inside the Chinese mainland.
(i.e. never ever been to HK, or Kuala Lumpur or Singapore, leave alone the western countries).

These areas - HK, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur and the West have a markedly different level of freedom of press ..... a possibility, which a "fully inside Chinese" may not be able to appreciate.

So, is this forum, mostly about overseas chinese .... who have spent a greater % of their life outside China, than inside China ???
(and some others, who were born in China .... but now settled outside China)

I say so, because "fully inside Chinese" could have views which are completely different from overseas chinese ..... a key factor being no access to English language press (not only because of censorship, but because of lack of English language skills among common resident Chinese).

I am really keen to be in touch with Chinese who are ... well .. just "totally" in China. (I hope you get what I am trying to say) !!!!!

I was in China and I used the China Telecom Tianyi 天翼3G broadband to surf. It is CDMA system and has fantastic speed. In comparison the Malaysian Celcom broadband I used in Kuala Lumpur is like turtle.

It is easy to identify mainland Chinese in this forum, judging from their postings and their fluency in English (no offence intended). I suspect A-Man and Challenge may be ones.

As to their perception of the world outside mainland China, are based on Chinese TV, HK TV (including English channels), and Phoenix TV, and even Taiwan TVs (all through local cable TV network), but these are frequently subjected to censorship when sensitive news were broadcasted. Also, Internet is a rich source of information, as long as no negative news or articles are posted, there is no problem accessing the websites.

Generally, when you have conversation with them, they will have alot of questions on almost anything outside mainland China. Among the educated people (college or university level), they knowledge of world outside are quite extensive. Those with lower education don't really care anything outside their life cirle though, they are not even interested in domestic affairs.

I hope the "Fully Inside Chinese" can post on this thread, I also like to read their views.
 
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bladerunner

Banned Idiot
There was a time when I frequent China a couple of times a year (not anymore now) for work purposes. My stay there was kind of short though... with a maximum of 14 days per trip. And we went there because just before we give any contract to a vendor... they would promise us sky and heaven.

However when we give them something to do... always towards the end of the scheduled time that they are suppose to deliver... something must slip. This is kind of irritating as we have to go there often to straighten up the stuff. Plus... when we are there... things seemed to flow more smoothly... but once we came back to our country... it became problematic again.

Sometime I feel that it is their attitude and not their skill or hardware that is the problem. So as you can see, handling the Chinese is really not an easy thing to do... I too have vendors in Malaysia, doing the same thing as vendors in China. So far those in Malaysia give us things as promised in the contract with minimum or no hiccups at all.


But I do agreed with Seigecrossbow in his assessment of Chinese engineers. They are REALLY good. I have a group of electronic and software designers in Singapore, and whatever given to them... they fail quite miserably... maybe they are not really gear to do things at today's extremely short timeframe and tight schedule. However when I gave almost the same design to my Shanghai and Hefei's team of designers, they could come out with the design in the given time and with minimal hiccups... well... I am very, very impress.

Paul Midler aludes to that sort of thing in his book "Poorly made in China"
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
I would like to go back but as we all know "sea turtles" aren't worth a damn these days. Things are very competitive in China and I don't think I am to fit to hold the sandals of your average Chinese Engineer (who actually got an education in China). All that I am useful for is going to be translating English documents to Chinese and that probably won't be necessary either in a couple of years once the English ed in China really picks up.

My parents are definitely heading back once they retire. As for me I think it really depends on whether I can find job opportunities back in China. I will go back for visit very often though.

Why do you want to underate yourself?

While theres no doubt that Chinas top engineers /scientists are very good, Imo the bulk of them aren't much better than their Western counterpart knowledge wise anyway.

A couple of yrs ago when some article came out claiming China was proudcing several hundred thousand engineers more than the the USA,a investigation by US institutions found that many of them were sub par to their US counterparts.

In fact Professor Gusong Liu and Shi Yigong finds Chinas education system hindering ideas and go on to suggest that Europe and American Scientists and Engineers will keep their competitive edge for some time yet.

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While America and China argue over "indigenous innovation", China is taking a new, direct approach - encouraging highly-skilled Chinese-born expatriates to return home from overseas, bringing their ideas and expertise with them.
But some of these experts have found that China's top-down, centrally-controlled culture, so successful in delivering technologies such as high-speed rail, can prove an obstacle to innovation.
Top medical scientist Professor Guosong Liu, moved from America to take up a post at Tsinghua, China's leading scientific university.
There, the memory and intelligence-enhancing drugs he has been developing in the US and Germany are being tested on thousands of rats and mice.
Frightened students
For such meticulous, labour-intensive work, Professor Liu says, China's hierarchical culture is perfect.
But when it comes to innovation, "this culture inhibits the evolution of new ideas", he says.
Professor Liu finds his Chinese students to be very different from their American counterparts.
Where American students are active in the lecture hall and constantly challenge what they are told, Chinese respect for hierarchy and authority means that even at a top university such as Tsinghua, it is hard to generate creative debate, he explains.
"I always say there's no stupid question. Ask me something stupid - it's better than nothing", Professor Liu says.
"But they sit there. Maybe they're scared of me, but they're not challenging me".
Competitive edge
Another top scientific returnee, Professor Shi Yigong, shocked his colleagues at the top US university Princeton by turning down a $10m research grant to become Dean of Life Sciences at Tsinghua.
Professor Shi also believes China's hierarchical, top-down environment stifles creative debate.
"Every time you say something, you have to think whether what I said appeases my superior," he says.
"You begin to limit your innovation. I think you basically have less innovative factors in your mind".
Companies outside China may fear the break-neck speed at which China is adopting leading edge technologies.
But when it comes to new ideas and innovation, Professor Shi says, China's top-down, hierarchical culture means Europe and the US look likely to keep their competitive edge for some time yet.
 
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