AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
It's called spin. Same with how they leave out Chinese are buying cars which counters their 100% Western dependency myth.
Resource War/Financial Woes
- Thread starter Delbert
- Start date
It's called spin. Same with how they leave out Chinese are buying cars which counters their 100% Western dependency myth.
If this is what you believe the current state of Chinese stock market is, then that's up to you. As I said I will believe it when I see it firsthand.
bladerunner
Banned Idiot
Sourced from Wiki. Hes obviously a pretty smart sorta guy and now hes got Goss from Pimco saying the very much thing. Pimco is a company worth 750billion in assets and $150billion in investment funds, more than enough to f--k with the Chinese Stock market if he wanted to wouldnt you say.
Chanos developed an investment strategy based on intensive research into stocks (as long as months), searching for fundamental and large market failures in valuation: typically under-estimated or previously un-reported failings in the business or market of a stock. followed by committing to a (usually large) short-position which he is willing to hold for long period of time - almost the mirror image of Warren Buffet's "fundamentals+long stay" investment strategy[citation needed]. Because of this model, his investments function more like those of a whistle-blower than most typical investments. Examples of this include short-selling companies such as Baldwin-United, Drexel Burnham, and more recently, the notorious Enron Corporation.
He rose to fame in the 1980s as a "short" - a short seller who had a knack of spotting stocks that he thought to be overvalued. After working as an analyst in several firms, he founded Kynikos (Greek for "cynic") in 1985 as a firm specializing in short selling. A critical position taken at Kynikos was his shorting of Enron [1].
In October 2000, Chanos started research into the valuation of Enron Corporation. He examined their use of mark to model (cousin to mark-to-market) accounting, which, in Chanos' experience, results in management overstating earnings, as well as what appeared to be a worryingly low (6-7%) return on capital investment. Enron stock declined from $90 in August 2000 to a low of $1 in January 2001 [2]. Over this period, Chanos was a short seller of Enron during 2001, increasing his short position as more information surfaced. Kynikos profited greatly and Chanos himself became somewhat of a celebrity as a consequence of his early awareness of Enron's problems.[3].
Last edited:
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
Remember Bernie Madoff? He was a reputable expert too.
Also these guys are putting money onto China collapsing so they're going to do eveything they can to see it happen. That's why he's trying to pull a Soros here.
Also these guys are putting money onto China collapsing so they're going to do eveything they can to see it happen. That's why he's trying to pull a Soros here.
bladerunner
Banned Idiot
I wouldnt have a clue as to whether they are able to collapse the overall market, I hope not but i'll try to follow their attempts with avid interest. Maybe they are trying to go for a few Enron type success in the Chinese Market, and when theres blood other sharks stark to circle.
Look at Lehmenn Brothers every man and his dog were busy shorting its shares to the point no-one wanted to rescue it.
As I said maybe its hot air on their part, or they have already taken a position with a bunch of Chinese Companies and are now trying to short their value.But because most major enterprises in China are State backed/owned, they may not have any success if the state intervenes.
Meanwhile heres a interesting read about a Russian Company in Trouble from atimes. Maybe Chanos and Goss are looking for a similar situation with Chinese Companies? Its a interesting thought anyway.
Rusal's crossroads - Russia, Libya or China
By John Helmer
MOSCOW - Confucius says, why buy a treasure from a man if you can wait for him to lose it?.......
Last edited:
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
You're comparing apples and oranges. You do realized the people you're giving credit are those basing their conclusions on Chinese data that they themselves say is manipulated in the first place?
bladerunner
Banned Idiot
Yes i do, but stock price isn't.
Lets look at what we do know from past yrs and educated analysis from reading between the lines in govt utterances.
1/The Chinese Banks have in the past had several hundred billion of bad loans taken off their books and then recaptalized by the. Govt.
2/More bad loans also likely to have acrued since then, which the govt havent been forthcoming with, thus leading to speculation.
3/ An Over Inflated Share Market.
4/ Bubbles emerginging, since acknowledged by PM Wen. in a round about way.
5/THe likelihood of decreasing trade surpluses as the western markets remain sluggish.
6/ american bonds etc decreasing in value along with its currency.
So lets say Chanos and Co in trying to short the market, manage to create a loss of confidence in the banks and causing a run on the banks deposits and if all the other factors line up as well, the government could have a trying situation on their hands.
If you read my earlier posts on CHanos you woud' ve noticed that he as much as said China was a confidence job, shake it around abit and you could cause problems.
Im interested in seeing what he does and i certainly wouldnt be sheding any tears if he went bust.
IMO. All in all lifes been pretty tough for the ordinary citizen we things are on the up n up, we dont need it to be short circuited by foreign short selling specialists, even though the enviroment may have been created by govt policies, so the least we can do is be alert.
Last edited:
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
Yes i do, but stock price isn't.
Lets look at what we do know from past yrs and educated analysis from reading between the lines in govt utterances.
1/The Chinese Banks have in the past had several hundred billion of bad loans taken off their books and then recaptalized by the. Govt.
2/More bad loans also likely to have acrued since then, which the govt havent been forthcoming with, thus leading to speculation.
3/ An Over Inflated Share Market.
4/ Bubbles emerginging, since acknowledged by PM Wen. in a round about way.
5/THe likelihood of decreasing trade surpluses as the western markets remain sluggish.
6/ american bonds etc decreasing in value along with its currency.
So lets say Chanos and Co in trying to short the market, manage to create a loss of confidence in the banks and causing a run on the banks deposits and if all the other factors line up as well, the government could have a trying situation on their hands.
If you read my earlier posts on CHanos you woud' ve noticed that he as much as said China was a confidence job, shake it around abit and you could cause problems.
Im interested in seeing what he does and i certainly wouldnt be sheding any tears if he went bust.
IMO. All in all lifes been pretty tough for the ordinary citizen we things are on the up n up, we dont need it to be short circuited by foreign short selling specialists, even though the enviroment may have been created by govt policies, so the least we can do is be alert.
You do know that's the way the Chinese stock market has always been. Again old news repeating as new. It already devalued greatly and came back. Again the Chinese stock market is no indicator of the real economy. You do realize everything you point out has been said for years. What makes it any different now?
Like the financial meltdown last year was not a shake? Sounds like whatever you have in mind is going to hurt China will devastating to the West even more. And it would be foolish to point at another's fragility when standing on a sinking ship.
bladerunner
Banned Idiot
The Possibility of Reducing Trade Surpluses. Much is made of the internal market taking up the slack, but if the consuming middle class, takes a hit, their appetite to spend would also be greatly reduced.
I dont think China's financial/banking was hurt that badly to a foreign meltdown becaused it wasnt greatly exposed, but a internal meltdown, is what these characters are trying to create is a totally different ballgame.
In the past no one has said they were gonna f--k with China's economy, partly because it was tightly controlled, but as it gradually moves towards floating its currency, fully convertable, and increasing transperency in its banking, could result in more malicious speculative financial placements.
Last edited:
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
The Chinese stock market took a dive before everyone else and for the very same reasons Chanos predicts doom and gloom now. What happened? The average Chinese kept on spending. Why? Because the Chinese stock market has nothing to do with them. Remember all those factories that closed down and all those workers having to go back to their rural villages because Western orders dropped like a rock? That ain't a shake-up? And according to Western experts, none of these Chinese can afford to buy a car especially since the cost runs parallel to Western prices. China markets opening up? Every Western critic says otherwise.