QBZ-191 service rifle family
- Thread starter Blitzo
- Start date
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
well true to a point I am not sure that it really matters.
your average crossbow will produce about 90 dbs of sound impulse. With an effective range of about 90m. Now yeah you could make it quieter and higher end models might go a little farther but is the juice worth the squeeze? I mean that’s quiet but is it needed to be that quiet? You have to consider weight and bulk. Your average cross bow is going to offer very little benefit beyond one or two shots when concealed, and demand the user carry another weapon. The type 85 smg you point to is about 80bds rapid fire and can be used in the assault of course it looses range being all but useless like most SMGs beyond 100m MP5SD is about 125dbs but was designed for full power ammunition. Another 9mm NATO Smg with subsonic and a good supressor could probably match the type 85. Yet still in the same window
Val/Vinterez/AmB17, .300blk are louder about 130bds but longer range too. About 300m with subsonic 400 supersonic. That may seem poorer but consider at 200m the guy on the receiving end isn’t going to hear it as well as if he was at 100. The user will be able to use that weapon in a conventional fashion without having to swap. Meaning they can breach or assault or defend themselves.
Does China have access to any of the Russian 9x39 chambered systems, or is the reference to stick with the 5.8x21?
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
First I am correcting myself.
I would say that a pretty good circumstantial case could be made that the only restriction for the Chinese military to procure such is that that it imposes upon its self.
Besides even if they didn’t buy them. we know the Chinese could develop their own weapons for 9x39mm or .300blk or develop their own. See the QSB06 amphibious rifle clearly based upon the APS rifle of the Russians but the Chinese developed their own based on 5.8x42mm.
The Reference is as I wanted to give a broader perspective upon the niche that we are addressing. Both East and west have Four cartridges that currently occupy this unique class. The 7.62x35mm (.300) Blackout/Whisper, 8.6x43mm Blackout, 9x93mm Grom and 12.7x55mm STs 130. Each has its own set of quirks. However they are all based on a larger heavier projectile head in a rimmed out case with a reduced cartridge load. For a subsonic longer range cartridge that’s optional.
5.8x21mm is not suited to this. The bullet is too light it’s optimized high speed. It maxes out at about 50m range subsonic with suppressor. It conceptually analogues the SB195 subsonic 5.7x23mm of the P90. Again sitting in that Submachine gun category. 50m subsonic suppressed 100m supersonic suppressed but the latter is going to be dramatically louder.
So to answer your questions.
If they wanted it they could probably just ask & No.
Now we were comparing to a crossbow which might make 90 meters and a SMG at 50m subsonic.
Considering that the Tula arms company sells commercial Vinterez clone rifles (with a fake supressor) and 9x39mm for hunting. Also considering that China has S400, and Su35s two of the most sophisticated and sensitive weapons available from the Russians.
I would say that a pretty good circumstantial case could be made that the only restriction for the Chinese military to procure such is that that it imposes upon its self.
Besides even if they didn’t buy them. we know the Chinese could develop their own weapons for 9x39mm or .300blk or develop their own. See the QSB06 amphibious rifle clearly based upon the APS rifle of the Russians but the Chinese developed their own based on 5.8x42mm.
The Reference is as I wanted to give a broader perspective upon the niche that we are addressing. Both East and west have Four cartridges that currently occupy this unique class. The 7.62x35mm (.300) Blackout/Whisper, 8.6x43mm Blackout, 9x93mm Grom and 12.7x55mm STs 130. Each has its own set of quirks. However they are all based on a larger heavier projectile head in a rimmed out case with a reduced cartridge load. For a subsonic longer range cartridge that’s optional.
5.8x21mm is not suited to this. The bullet is too light it’s optimized high speed. It maxes out at about 50m range subsonic with suppressor. It conceptually analogues the SB195 subsonic 5.7x23mm of the P90. Again sitting in that Submachine gun category. 50m subsonic suppressed 100m supersonic suppressed but the latter is going to be dramatically louder.
So to answer your questions.
If they wanted it they could probably just ask & No.
FYI this is the bullet for type 64/85 in 7.62x25. For some reason they replaced those with 5.8x21. Recently Chinese SMG seems to be 9mm.
The right one here is 5.8 subsonic bullet and left one regular.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
And your point is?
Type 85 as you yourself acknowledge was to be replace by 9mm SMGs and the type 05. Although the 7.62x25mm used had potential it’s not quite on part with this class as even with supersonic it was maxed range at 200m well subsonic range was 100-150m basically just below .300blk which is the weakest of the bunch.
Type 85 as you yourself acknowledge was to be replace by 9mm SMGs and the type 05. Although the 7.62x25mm used had potential it’s not quite on part with this class as even with supersonic it was maxed range at 200m well subsonic range was 100-150m basically just below .300blk which is the weakest of the bunch.
Yes, but it is what we know exists.
For whatever reason: doctrinally, logistics, whatever other they seem to have gone with a shorter ranged cartridge.
Equation
Lieutenant General
Is that the PLA version of the M72 LAW (Light Anti Armor Weapon) over there to 3rd soldier on the left?
Just good old PF89.