PLAN Type 035/039/091/092 Submarine Thread

[asif iqbal]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

 

[Jeff Head]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Everyone is cutting down the number of missiles carried with no reduction in warheads as technology improves, replacement of the Ohio Class will not be carrying 24 missiles and maybe cut to 16 .

Yes, but the Ohio replacements will not even start coming online until 2030 at the earliest. Then it will take another 15 years to replace them. So, until 2045 (32 years from now), you will be seeing 24 cell Ohios still plowing the seas. IOW, since that would make me 89 years old, probably easily for the rest of my life. You younger fellows can worry about it then. LOL!

 

[antiterror13]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Look at all those holes...no wonder it's a noisy boat.

I am always wondering what is the purpose of the holes anyway?

 

[i.e.]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Global times have definitely been known to BS before, and it does sound like boasting.

However there was that interview from a few days ago where it was claimed (that rear admiral Yin Zhou) JL-2 is an "ICBM," and the show made it clear that the PLA definition of ICBM is a missile with a range beyond 8000km where as missiles of 3000-8000km were classed as "long range missiles," so I think there's enough to speculate whether western intelligence estimates need a bit of a tweak.

We know there's a JL-2A under development because of that famous plaque of 032 SSBE, but an improvement of the existing JL-2 could be to increase warhead number, countermeasures, rather than range.

I wouldn't worry about the range estimates down to hundreds of km for a rocket of 8000 km...

typically the amount of "reserves range" held for variations in atmosphere conditions, earth magnetic field variations, gravity of moon etc for a rocket is easily 5% or so. no designer of right mind will "burn out" the final stage of the rocket and call that a range.

things like boosting final stage kicker would easily increase the range by 5-10% no problem.

I have said for a long time... the JL-2 is designed to hit north american soft targets from defended bastions with in continental shelf . not going to deep ocean to play cat and mouse.

and the fact that they based in Hainan SCS is telling enough of its range... just do a great circle distance from Sanya Pheonix International to atlanta jackson hartsfield... you would see what I mean.

===

also a bit more on "range" for an ICBM/re-entry orbital vehicle.

for an ICBM's typical "high" trajectory, which most of the smaller SLBM uses.

if the re-entry body controls its attitude a bit and the vehicle trade a bit speed for lift, you can easily extend the range may be for a thousand km. think of it as a soyuz capsule messed up the attitude control and missing the touchdown area... that happens.

 

[i.e.]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

China aims for minimum credible deterrent. anything beyond that is a waste pure and simple.

finally after all these years, 12 city busters with penetration aids carried by a SSBN defended in SCS bastion will give china that.

funny to see that tabloid washington times to scream about the it when there is about 100 times more war heads aimed at the other way... and most of them are highly accurate first strike weapons design to denude china of its nuclear and strategic C&C systems before china has a chance to respond ! Ha!

 

[Blitzo]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

I wouldn't worry about the range estimates down to hundreds of km for a rocket of 8000 km...

typically the amount of "reserves range" held for variations in atmosphere conditions, earth magnetic field variations, gravity of moon etc for a rocket is easily 5% or so. no designer of right mind will "burn out" the final stage of the rocket and call that a range.

things like boosting final stage kicker would easily increase the range by 5-10% no problem.

I have said for a long time... the JL-2 is designed to hit north american soft targets from defended bastions with in continental shelf . not going to deep ocean to play cat and mouse.

and the fact that they based in Hainan SCS is telling enough of its range... just do a great circle distance from Sanya Pheonix International to atlanta jackson hartsfield... you would see what I mean.

===

also a bit more on "range" for an ICBM/re-entry orbital vehicle.

for an ICBM's typical "high" trajectory, which most of the smaller SLBM uses.

if the re-entry body controls its attitude a bit and the vehicle trade a bit speed for lift, you can easily extend the range may be for a thousand km. think of it as a soyuz capsule messed up the attitude control and missing the touchdown area... that happens.

But there is a difference between 8000km and 12000km or more which can truly cover North America in SCS, and that difference of 4000km or more probably can't be simply made up despite different flight trajectories or even if they cut down their payload.

The final number we need to know is JL-2's "standard" maximum range

 

[Franklin]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

according to the Chinese bbs releases, one of the 094s is in the Qingdao base now while the other one is still at Xiaopingdao. So in terms of actually in service, we have 3 091s, 1 092, 2 093 and 2 094. 2 other 094 and 1 093B are launched and in sea trials. They also claimed that there is a 093 in Qingdao, but I have yet to confirm that.

So if i understand it clearly there are as of now only 2 Type 093's the 2 original launched in 2002 and perhabs a third one. And the improved Type 093G doesn't exist. And there are only 2 Type 094 the two originals as well. Now they are building two more of each.

Given that they are now decommissioning one of the Type 091's and has given the media unprecedented access to the nuclear sub forces that was previously unthinkable. Can we then surmise from these facts that the new Type 093 is close to if not already being commissioned into the PLAN and that the PLAN are quite satisfied with the new boats. The problems plaguing the first generation Type 093 has largely been resolved with new and improved technology.

 

[asif iqbal]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Yes, but the Ohio replacements will not even start coming online until 2030 at the earliest. Then it will take another 15 years to replace them. So, until 2045 (32 years from now), you will be seeing 24 cell Ohios still plowing the seas. IOW, since that would make me 89 years old, probably easily for the rest of my life. You younger fellows can worry about it then. LOL!

You will not have to wait that long! First Ohio Class is due to retire 2029 and a replacement is scheduled to take its place by then so that's 16 years until we see the first replacement, yes to replace the entire fleet it will likely be more than 30 years but like the Gerald Ford Class we will see the first unit much much earlier

The design of the Ohio Class is due to begin pretty soon

 

[Jeff Head]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

You will not have to wait that long! First Ohio Class is due to retire 2029 and a replacement is scheduled to take its place by then so that's 16 years until we see the first replacement, yes to replace the entire fleet it will likely be more than 30 years.

My point was that even after the first replacement comes on line in the 2030 time frame with 16 tubes, it will be another 15 years after that, at a minimum, before the 24 tube Ohios are all replaced. I will not live to see that...the day when there are no more 24 tube US Navy SSBNs prowling the oceans.

That was my meaning.

 

[antiterror13]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

My point was that even after the first replacement comes on line in the 2030 time fram with 16 tubes, the 24 tube Ohios will be another 15 years after that, at a minimum, before they are all replaced. I will not live to see that...the day when there are no more 24 tube US Navy SSBNs prowling the oceans.

That was my meaning.

we never know Jeff ... 86 is not that old.

I know a few people still healthy even they are 88 and still go for a walk almost every morning