PLAN Type 035/039/091/092 Submarine Thread

[asif iqbal]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Well I thinks it's pretty clear what these submarines are

Although many of us are focused in PLAN surface vessels the sub-surface force go unnoticed

And I believe it's this branch of the navy that gets a lot of investment and money, so far we have confirmed 3-4 x Type 094 SSBN, these are submarines which carry active nuclear warheads or are certainly are designed too, now JL-2 has been tested which seems a success after a very long time, and as many of us know SSBN are the most complex and expensive units ever built, these four Type 094 must have a cost in the region of $10-15 billion

Added to that 4 x Type 093 SSN again not cheap, price tag easily close to $10 billion, the minimum for these two classes is $20 billion for eight nuclear submarines, but I'll be even more conservative and say $15 billion for them

Now at Yulin there is 4 piers, which means 8 nuclear submarines and 8 berthing space at Qingdao which means eventually PLAN will be looking at 16 SSN and SSBN, which means another 4 x Type 095 and 4-5 x Type 096

Now I believe Type 095 is under construction and Type 096 is at early stage, this shows a massive determination by China to master nuclear submarines

And Type 095 and Type 096 will be actively on deterrent patrols, can you imagine a Chinese nuclear submarine on active duty with active nuclear weapons? That is a very powerful sign

 

[nicky]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

SSNs are nessessary for:
a) SSBNs protection
b) carrier groups protection
c) any other ops

 

[chuck731]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

2 questions

What is the evidence that a new generation of Chinese nuclear subs is already being built?

Why would new Chinese muclear subs not use a different suffix behind the same project code, like how Chinese destroyer designs intended for similar roles would keep the same project code (type 051, 051C, 052, 052B, 052C, etc) even if the actual design is essentially new?

 

[asif iqbal]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

SSNs are nessessary for:
a) SSBNs protection
b) carrier groups protection
c) any other ops

so what your listing missions of a SSN, well thats not correct and it doesnt end there

primary purpose of SSN is to attack, a hunter killer, to find and locate enemy submarines how that fits into overall stratedgy depends on the missions, so you first list the capability then the missions, not the other way round, otherwise you make no sense

 

[Jeff Head]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

so what your listing missions of a SSN, well thats not correct and it doesnt end there

primary purpose of SSN is to attack, a hunter killer, to find and locate enemy submarines how that fits into overall stratedgy depends on the missions, so you first list the capability then the missions, not the other way round, otherwise you make no sense

I'd say it like this.

The principle mission of a nuclear attack submarine is to hunt down and kill other submarines and vessels.

It can do that in a defensive mode while escorting carriers or other high value vessels. Or it can do it in an offensive mode.

The sub also has a mission to do recon, intel, insert SPECOPS, etc. But that is secondary to its primary role.

 

[chuck731]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

I think the afore mentioned is the principle mission of American SSNs. There would seem to be far too few chinese SSNs to form any sort of effective counter submarine force. Perhaps they would act as a sort of long endurance force-in-being to tie down American assets.

 

[nicky]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

If you have no SSBN or just something like Xia, you may choose any roles for your SSNs, including the ones you mention.
But if you have a regular formation of SSBNs that makes regular patrols with strategic weapons onboard there is no role other than protect primary strategic asset of your country. Which also includes enemy sub hunting. Second comes protection of the primary asset of your navy - carrier group. Which also includes enemy sub hunting. Than comes anything else.

 

[Jeff Head]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

I think the afore mentioned is the principle mission of American SSNs. The principle mission of chinese SSNs may just be a long range sea denial to American surface assets.

I believe the mission of the PLAN SSNs is consistent with what I indicated, ie. "to hunt down and kill other submarines and vessels.".

Long range sea denial involves precisely that mission. In that role they would find belligerant vessels, be they subs or surface vessels, trying to access their area of operations, and target and engage them

 

[chuck731]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

If you have no SSBN or just something like Xia, you may choose any roles for your SSNs, including the ones you mention.
But if you have a regular formation of SSBNs that makes regular patrols with strategic weapons onboard there is no role other than protect primary strategic asset of your country. Which also includes enemy sub hunting. Second comes protection of the primary asset of your navy - carrier group. Which also includes enemy sub hunting. Than comes anything else.

The small number of SSNs available to the Chinese and the reputedly inadaquate noise reduction of chinese nuclear submarines makes active protection the country's SSBNs on patrol dubious. If the Chinese send SSBNs out on regular patrol with SSN escorts, the USN can afford to put a SSN on the tail of every chinese SSBN, as well as one on the tail of every attached chinese SSN.

 

[tphuang]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

The small number of SSNs available to the Chinese and the reputedly inadaquate noise reduction of chinese nuclear submarines makes active protection the country's SSBNs on patrol dubious. If the Chinese send SSBNs out on regular patrol with SSN escorts, the USN can afford to put a SSN on the tail of every chinese SSBN, as well as one on the tail of every attached chinese SSN.

USN does put a SSN on the tail of every Chinese nuclear subs and even regular subs that go on patrol.

I think what Jeff stated is quite accurate. If Chinese SSN are too noisy and can't hunt down other nuclear submarines or to provide active protection of SSBN, then they will also be too noisy to provide do sea denial missions because other SSN will be able to easily detect them.